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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - mtjsmith - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Depends; are you guys enjoying yourselves? If so then I don't think it's meaningless. As for being considered part of the cannon storyline, the devs will have to confirm if what I said is true, from my experience this has been the case for the past 3yrs. If this is the case then they and Igiss are the only ones whom you have to convince to make the made up stuff into Disco cannon. It certainly was no secret when these factions were being made that they weren't cannon. Pretty sure it's still not a secret.
Ingame actions have influenced the mod, take the war between Bretonia and Rheinland for example. Two bases switched over with admin intervention.
Instead of having that set-in-stone storyline, I suggest looking at what is happening ingame and mould the story around that. For example - The Molly's are being ninja'd into an alliance with Bretonia against Gallia when the current official Molly faction want nothing more than to pew Bretonia.
I believe the points that the people are making here, is that often what actually goes on in the game is ignored.
I'm all for a storyline. But give us a house, and let us pick the furniture. If Gallia comes a stomping, but Bretonia pushes it back in every single raid in 4.86.. Shouldn't there be some sort of reward instead of "Bye Leeds!"
Now, I'll stop before I go further off-topic.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Tagesbefehl - 12-17-2011
Factions have a limited number of unique characteristics to keep players interested. Ships and guns are often a significant factor in the decision of which to join and how long to stay. Everyone gets tired of the same thing after a while, so the guns/ships of allies add to the options available to the player in their faction (since factions typically have tech usage agreements). The more combinations of ships and guns that are available mean more fun for the player and the possibility for factions with more limited options of their own to access technologies that can improve their activity enough to contribute to the server. Its difficult to see why those options should be sacrificed (or made too disadvantageous to want). Its hard enough for many factions to generate activity without reducing the options available to the player and making the problem worse.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Garuda - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:I have SRP like ships that would be effected by this. Some of which I have had for years. Can I see the thread where the system is fully explained before I cast my opinion?
' Wrote:Ok, yeah this is silly.
My hacker GS, which I got approved by the hackers in 2008 is now going to have its power dinged (something it has basically none of anyway) because of using it as an Outcast. Yeah, it would be far easier and get the OC gunship that has no nerf and a helluva lot more firepower.
However, I keep the hacker GS because it isn't powerful but rather is part of my character's story. So basically I am taking a double hit because I not only choose to keep the weaker ship that I was granted but it is now falling apart at the seems because I am using it in its native area rather than a OC gunship that I would have to go completely across Sirius to get parts for in RP.
Just seems like a very arbitrary way to run a universe that is crazily dynamic in the way these things are handled.
I have almost the same problem with the Spiridus my main character/ship, which I have since three years now.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - ProwlerPC - 12-17-2011
The matter of what happened to Bret and Rheinland was a pretty funny but still it was some kinda experimental punishment to wake up the two sides who were breaking the cannon lore in an exceedingly glaring fashion when both these houses were not doing so well with the actual wars they had (and were ignoring). I thought it was pretty funny but I hold no illusions to what that really was.
edit add: ask the devs if they took that event seriously when making .86
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Omicron - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Factions have a limited number of unique characteristics to keep players interested. Ships and guns are often a significant factor in the decision of which to join and how long to stay. Everyone gets tired of the same thing after a while, so the guns/ships of allies add to the options available to the player in their faction (since factions typically have tech usage agreements). The more combinations of ships and guns that are available mean more fun for the player and the possibility for factions with more limited options of their own to access technologies that can improve their activity enough to contribute to the server. Its difficult to see why those options should be sacrificed (or made too disadvantageous to want). Its hard enough for many factions to generate activity without reducing the options available to the player and making the problem worse.
I support this fully... not mentioning what happens to members that actualy HATE their faction's current guns from this reason or another.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Blighter - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:I'm pretty sure all of this is being considered. Otherwise, the two Merc factions are gonna get hit pretty hard. I'd like to not have to mount codes on everything.
But as I said, I'm sure the situation with factions mixing tech is being looked at.
I heard a rumor that both may be getting their own IDs in order to avoid it affecting them too much negatively. For example: Mandalorian EXTREMELY long-standing relations with Bretonia, or all the workload Reavers had to go through to get Corsair guns. But that is neither here or there.
' Wrote:I have two points.
What is abusing tech? You say you haven't done it and I'm not accusing you of it either, but what is your definition of abusing tech?
How big is this nerf actually going to be? You make it sound like it's going to be the end of the HF, but the nerf may not be all that bad.
What abusing tech is hardly put in clear terms anywhere, but in general refers to ridiculous ship + gear combinations widely considered overpowered by say the Balancing team or as the general (proven) opinion of the community is. Obvious example:
The Scorpion Gunboat is technically a WILDE ship. It has been balanced to use four regular Rheinland Military Turrets and four Nomad Turrets. Abusing tech is putting a whole eight Nomad Turrets onto it as I've generally gathered. As the ship hasn't been balanced for it and it is extremely effective with eight of those guns in the right hands, it is widely considered to be overpowered, hence why tech-abuse.
I do not know how big the nerf is supposed to be, but red-cell tech = major nerf, white-cell tech = minor nerf unless if you use the matching IFF. Take the following examples with a grain of salt::
Pirate ID, Hessian IFF, using an Odin and Natters = No nerf.
Pirate ID, no Hessian IFF, using an Odin = Small nerf.
Pirate ID, LWB IFF, using an Odin and Bundschuh Luger guns = Medium nerf.
Pirate ID, no IFF at all, using an Avenger = Major nerf.
Obviously if you use an Aquilon carrier on an Order ID, you'd have to get a Zoner IFF, right? But your ID isn't a generic one, so still nerf.
And if you have approvals for say Lane Hacker turrets to boot? Nerf, more major.
And this doesn't even fall into the tech-abuse category, as the Aquilon's a piece of junk in combat compared to other Battleships of its class, no matter what shooters you can dump on it due to white-cells.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Petitioner - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:It certainly was no secret when these factions were being made that they weren't cannon. Pretty sure it's still not a secret.You're telling me the Hellfire Legion and SCRA don't actually exist?
Please either change their IDs and IFFs to neutral, and open up their tech to everyone, or redact your statement.
Also, the word's "canon." Cannon is the one who invented autonerf.:P
ninjaedit: We're getting off-topic.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - ProwlerPC - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:You're telling me the Hellfire Legion and SCRA don't actually exist?
Please either change their IDs and IFFs to neutral, and open up their tech to everyone, or redact your statement.
Also, the word's "canon." Cannon is the one who invented autonerf.:P
You been around for awhile and know, as I do, that these faction have existed throughout multiple updates. Aside from their very personal own....do you see anything, ANYTHING at all outside their personal spheres that have any mention of these factions let alone show any change due to them?
Edit add: :laugh: Someone else pointed out my mistake with the word canon. Thanks :)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - ChillerMiller - 12-17-2011
I've been part of the HF for almost a year now, we have a lot of ships that'll get affected by that nerf, a nerf that will make our job even harder than it already is. Ships that've been a part of our history for years will become useless for us. The Ven'Gyr, the Incursus as well as our Liberty Ships are becoming useless, some of these ships existed for years. They're playing a major role in the HF, they are the soul of this faction. And that is getting destroyed ? Why ?
People that have been working to get the HF to the position where it is at the moment are getting a slap, their effort gets destroyed, all the invested time for nothing. People like Mara and Justin. All their efforts in the last years for nothing ?
I don't want to see that. The HF or any other faction that has been mentioned in this thread didn't deserve this. The members of the respective factions didn't deserve this.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Vagrant Raiders - 12-17-2011
Im posting this on the VR official Account for a few reasons:
1. It will really effect the majority of our RP
2. This is the viewpoint of pretty much EVERYONE in the VR.
The Power-nerf is bull, put bluntly. I will be using VR as a example for most of this, because Its what Im used to. Basically, What happens to the factions that have put blood sweat and tears into their faction, creating large scale alliances with factions, and in return getting their tech? What about the factions that were PER ADMIN DECREE given a tech line due to their RP? The Vagrant Raiders where once a Lane Hacker faction, and as such we used Lane Hacker Technology. Per a decree from Cannon, We where granted full LH snub tech BY THE ADMIN TEAM due to RP. So we get nerfed for using said tech from the moment of creation? What about the Outcasts? We have (as part of our RP) smuggled cardamine into liberty as per our RP, and gotten rewarded by the 101st with technology, assistance, and pretty much many shiny things. The VR have had long lasting relationships with the Rogues, The Lane Hackers, The Outcasts, The Hellfire Legion, and now all of that work that I and the Factions Creator Dream Theater put into this faction.
Take a car, Imagine you being very good friends with a Mechanic, who teaches you how to install parts in your car. You install some aftermarket components that you learned how to from your very good friend. Ships are like Cars. Your skill and knowledge you have gotten from your friends do not just immediately vanish when you try to put something on you have worked for, and learned. The VR learned from their experiences, and I assume they would know the technology to maintain it to its best working condition. That is inRP knowledge. Yet, the devs have attempted to just kill everyones none-cannon RP because of well...I don't even know. Take the Hellfire Legion, a faction that has been stabbing at battleships time after time again. One would believe that the inRP techs would know how to fix their warships, after having them damaged 9000+1 times by navy guns.
How exactly would this make any inRP sense for factions that have been working with the technology for so long, now just to get backstabbed becuase they are not "canon"? Canon RP is what happens ingame. Canonwise, the HF are a big unlawful military that is a force to be reconed with. Canonwise, the Unioners are working together with the LWB. Canonwise, VR is a unlawful piracy and smuggling group that uses Outcast and Hacker technology, gained from experience and RP. Canonwise, the SCRA gained their Osiris from the Order(and corsairs). So now, due to our canon, we get penalized, while it is part of our RP?
That's just Crap.
-The Vagrant Raiders, Not just the Overlord, Not just the HC, Everyone.