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+--- Thread: Bretonia Destroyer (/showthread.php?tid=73210)
Bretonia Destroyer - Hades - 01-24-2012
' Wrote:IF anyone else remembers, the RNC cruiser was also of this type, as it had heavy triple barreled guns mounted on those pylons.No.
It had the one triple barreled battleship gun on the bottom large mount, the ones on the pylons are double barreled BUT larger than the ones currently used on the ship in-game.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HL...wpewbigguns.png
The turret on the rear engine assembly is the current one used for the RNC cruiser's primaries in Disco, I think.
There's also a lot of turrets in places that aren't there on the Discovery model (shot was taken from the singleplayer campaign, the Donau.)
I'd actually like to see a loadout sorta similar to the Donau's. The one battleship primary on the bottom, the RNC cruiser primaries using the larger double-barreled model.
Bretonia Destroyer - Ursus - 01-24-2012
I like the idea of using the larger turret models for the heavy weapons.
Bretonia Destroyer - tOotymann - 01-27-2012
Nice find, Indeed.
Do some bigger turets with bigger output for the dessie and problem solved
Bretonia Destroyer - jammi - 01-27-2012
' Wrote:Turn this: http://i43.tinypic.com/313oy0o.pngThis seems like the best idea at the moment. Looks more pleasing to the eye, really.
And this: http://i39.tinypic.com/ei137k.png
Into BS Prim slots.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2jg845t.png
This into a Cruiser Heavy.
Bretonia Destroyer - FallenKnight - 01-27-2012
' Wrote:This seems like the best idea at the moment. Looks more pleasing to the eye, really.
Yup this is good as well. Then the dessi will have 1 forward firing only Light Mortar and 2 Bs turrets forward/backward firing. The power generator and other turret slots as well as the maneuverablity should stay as they are now while the armor can be reduced with 20-30 000.
If devs agree on that its good if they place their proposal for dessi stats here so we can comment.
Bretonia Destroyer - Blighter - 01-29-2012
' Wrote:Yup this is good as well. Then the dessi will have 1 forward firing only Light Mortar and 2 Bs turrets forward/backward firing. The power generator and other turret slots as well as the maneuverablity should stay as they are now while the armor can be reduced with 20-30 000.
If devs agree on that its good if they place their proposal for dessi stats here so we can comment.
I must add that it's highly unlikely - if this was implemented in the first place - you would get to keep the current agility and you would have to sacrifice a good chunk of it given that in the anti-Battleship role using two BS Primaries will extend your effective anti-cap range for guns by a very major amount. Coupled with the already high agility of the Bretonian Destroyer, that would be a nightmare. Our current BCs have low agility ratings, very low ones in comparison to Cruisers and Destroyers, and they still excel at the Cruiser / BS busting role, despite the major size and agility differences.
I'll personally look into this ship the second I get my hands on a regular Bretonian Destroyer for a couple test-rides. Not only does the overall proposal of turning this thing into a "light" BC sound reasonable however, but it also sounds like a logical evolutionary step from a RP perspective. Seeing that Bretonia is now under more pressure from the Gallic threat with resources and ships becoming scarcer, it would only make sense if the current Destroyer underwent a conversion to a lighter type of Battlecruiser to counter the Gallic threat presented by the super-heavy Obstinate-class Cruisers and the super-heavy Valors. However I wouldn't expect a magical miracle, as RP is one thing, and balance is another. The idea itself merits looking-into, but necessitates that the current ship is being investigated prior to drawing up any stats.
Bretonia Destroyer - FallenKnight - 01-29-2012
' Wrote:However I wouldn't expect a magical miracle, as RP is one thing, and balance is another.
I fully support you in this. Its already known that all capital ships are just a mere shadows of their former selves but that is necessary for the game balance. That is how it must be.
As for the bretonia destroyer, the original ship is using only 3 capital ship turrets and 2 cruiser turrets. In disco they've added more hardpoints to all ships for the balance but for unknown reasons that ship is nerfed. Example how I feel about this "nerf" is if bret dessi was like a LSC but without a forward gun (its main weapon).
Quote:Our current BCs have low agility ratings, very low ones in comparison to Cruisers and Destroyers, and they still excel at the Cruiser / BS busting role, despite the major size and agility differences.
"Our" current BC's are example of super heavy cruisers that are one step closer to a battleship or in short heavy battlecruisers. They have high rating in the following stats: Armor, Output, Hardpoints, size, anti capital ship weapons.
The LSC and Bret dessi are examples of light BC's with stats like: Low armor, low output, low number of hardpoints, low size, strong anti captail ship weapons.
The differences between light and heavy BC's are these:
-Light BC's can deal tremendous amounts of damage to enemy battleships but they are tremendously weak in close range.
-Heavy BC's are balanced in both long and close range while battling a battleship.
In short, what I mean is that some ships are loosing their reasons to exist if nerfed wrong, ships from the vanila freelancer.
Bretonia Destroyer - Knjaz - 01-30-2012
' Wrote:"Our" current BC's are example of super heavy cruisers that are one step closer to a battleship or in short heavy battlecruisers. They have high rating in the following stats: Armor, Output, Hardpoints, size, anti capital ship weapons.
The LSC and Bret dessi are examples of light BC's with stats like: Low armor, low output, low number of hardpoints, low size, strong anti captail ship weapons.
The differences between light and heavy BC's are these:
-Light BC's can deal tremendous amounts of damage to enemy battleships but they are tremendously weak in close range.
-Heavy BC's are balanced in <strike>both</strike> long <strike>and close</strike> range while battling a battleship. - and they're also tremendously weak in close range when combating a battleship-class vessel
In short, what I mean is that some ships are loosing their reasons to exist if nerfed wrong, ships from the vanila freelancer.
Fixed for you. Battlecruisers aren't meant to get in close range of enemy battleships, they're de-facto glass cannons (well, now with BS missiles having it's DPS halved combined with BCs flak they did become better, that's true)
You do know that lowering it's hull from 350 to 320 won't affect it's anti-BS capabilities at all, due to it's maneuverability. In Disco, having high agility with relatively small size is always better then having strong hull with very low agility. Unless your tanking abilities and firepower are higher then enemy ones, and you have a way to get close to him. (Capfights, that is)
So to balance that thing out, especially taking turret steering into account, you'll need to significantly reduce it's agility.
Bretonia Destroyer - Syrus - 01-30-2012
Sadly I'm not at home, I have some nice pics of the vanilla RM Cruiser on my computer there.
It had indeed a single three-barrel'd gun mounted on the belly. As far as I can remember it had 3 or even 4 kinds of guns. I will take a closer look once I'm home and see how they were in vanilla.
For the Bret Cruiser, did they ever appear in vanilla? I mean, somehow I always knew how they looked...but I can't think of any situation where they appeared in vanilla. Anyone knows about it?
I would love to check the weapon setup on those ships back then. I think the idea of having those "heavy" turrets is nice. No need to turn the cruisers into light BCs though. Just give them a special very heavy "cerb" like mount for house turrets.
Though I won't say no to the Bret Dessie and the Rheinland Cruiser being turned into light bcs. Cruisers need to be redone, like the BS were, imo.
Bretonia Destroyer - FallenKnight - 01-30-2012
' Wrote:I would love to check the weapon setup on those ships back then. I think the idea of having those "heavy" turrets is nice.You can check the vanila bret dessi setup from FLStats. I already did that to see their damage. The dessi have 2 kinds of guns, primary and secondaries. The primaries are exactly the same as the bretonia battleship primary turrets located on left and right side (at the rings-like locations), and the head. Their damage is equally same - 51 per hull with refire rate 2.00. Ofcourse such low damage is not a good example of "strong firepower" but considering they share same names, size, damage, and even bolt animations (like battle razors) that gives the knowledge they are met to be the same.
' Wrote:Just give them a special very heavy "cerb" like mount for house turrets.Belive it or not I was just thinking about the same solution. Maybe creating a new type of turret for the bret dessi by using the "bretonia tertiarry turret model" and similar to Cerberus stats but little more improved to make it different? Something like this:
Cerberus Cruiser Turret (class 7)
Hull damage: 18,500
Shield damage: 9,250
Refire Rate: 1.00
Range: 1,650 m
Speed: 800 m/s
Energy: 60,000
HullDPS: 18500
ShieldDPS: 9,250
Bretonia Destroyer Heavy Turret (class 7)
Hull damage: 12,820
Shield damage: 6,420
Refire Rate: 1.52
Range: 1,750 m
Speed: 900 m/s
Energy: 41,450
HullDPS: 19486
ShieldDPS: 9758
What do you think about that?
(and syrus this is not about the RM cruiser, you are right but lets talk only about the dessi here)