+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Role-Playing (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Forum: Unofficial Factions and Groups (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=67)
+--- Thread: Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. (/showthread.php?tid=73899)
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Thyrzul - 02-03-2012
' Wrote:7 hessian battleships? Go imagine that 7 bombers will put them down more efficiently and with less cassualties than 7 other capital ships.This. It is indeed important to know what counters what. By a good combination of a countering fleet, even with smaller sizes you could win. Caps aren't vulnerable only to other caps.
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Rmorph - 02-03-2012
' Wrote:This. It is indeed important to know what counters what. By a good combination of a countering fleet, even with smaller sizes you could win. Caps aren't vulnerable only to other caps.
Agreed, from a pure game-play perspective you're absolutely right.. a bomber has a small chance of taking out a cap, assuming the cap isn't particularly looking at him.It would be great to see more varied combat, and of course that small chance will grow depending on level of skill, which should be encouraged to progress.
But again, and repeating previous posts: While we will encourage players to try an play a varied selection when in the ECG, we won't demand that every other player in the sky goes and parks because "its not valid RP"..
People will want to play caps, and simply take them out of a faction that demands only bombers and fighters.
The Hessian and BH "Could have" come into Gamma with fighters and bombers as well - but they didn't.
Even though they knew the system was empty.. cos they have just wiped it clean.
In the perfect world espoused by others here, we should have demanded that the fleet that invaded us should have been 2 caps, 2 cruisers, 2 repair ships, 2 gunboats, 2 bombers, and 5 fighters.. so we could have measured out our response.
My first thought is that preplanned RP defeats the free-form nature of this game that you know and love.
Secondly: We don't want the enemy to know we will only field fighters and bombers every time they enter our space. If word gets around Corsair are weak with caps, we will get caps invading us every few hours.
I'm getting that worried little voice in my head that "Regulations" would be the only way to fix this, unless we relax a little and define a sensible method of allowing caps (see post 1).
But from an RP perspective (Which you guys have been advocating as the primary reason not to have so many caps) is it really reasonable to believe that when 7 enemy battleships drop into the home-system, all the Corsairs have to protect themselves is a bomber fleet?
Really?
Given the hundreds of caps out there this would turn Gamma rapidly into a Corsair barrel of fish every evening - just like what happened yesterday as a result of ECG moving out of gamma.
This would seriously lower the Game-play enjoyment of anyone playing Corsair PLUS it would lower the RP effort: Corsair becomes the nation of ganked.
So. A Corsair cap ban must be met with a Hessian cap ban, and a BH cap ban, and an Order cap ban and a ....
Why not just remove them? We are now establishing a class system over who and who may not enjoy caps.
A horrible thing to do in a game that excels on its open free-form play, and it kinda strikes at the heart of everything the devs have managed to achieve with this fantastic sandbox.
___
Lastly; ANd this is probably somewhat contnetious, but as Ive had the weeks to read and catch up on whats been outlined for the RP definitions, I must say I disagree somewhat with the current portrayal of corsairs,, and I hope with time I can bring a little adjustment to it to bring better depth to the role:
Corsair are an empire: Not simply a band of robbers like the Hessians.
They are one of the 7 empires from vanillaFL and have planets and space stations and tech to advance.
That's not shabby stuff.
My feeling is that all those people that like to RP as a little band of warrior villagers need to reconsider exactly what being a space faring empire actually should mean.
We don't have to be as large as Liberty, but if we were only this little band of fanatical pirates we could never have withstood the multiple enemies that beat down our door every minute- including multinational conglomerations, other space empires and a sophisticated alien menace.
This means capital ships basically.. no level of " but Corsairs are poor" is going to justify that a space empire can't afford battleships.
OUr children may starve every time a battleship is launched... but make no mistake: We are armed to the teeth with every size and manner of spaceship.
::::
::::
Please keep your comments coming: I find this an extremely interesting conversation, and directly relevant to some primary objectives we have with building the ECG.
Cheers,
m
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - globalplayer-svk - 02-03-2012
I am not fan of cap whoring but
Until hessians will ally with bounty hunters,mercs in liberty gunboats and MM+some zoners only to gank gamma, what do you expect??? There will be only more and more battleships (sad but true)
And saying that corsairs can not afford so many caps while thinking that is ok for hessians to send 6-7 battleships to gamma is just wrong...
You will hardly become change from someone when everytime he log in gamma there are lot of caps and foghters attacking...
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Crackpunch - 02-03-2012
I haven't read every post in this thread so excuse me if this has been suggested.
Allow every member to own an ECG capital ship, but restrict the amount that can be online at a time. Say for every two snubs you have online, allow the third ship to be a cap. That way you can have a relatively balanced force without much QQ about capspam.
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - globalplayer-svk - 02-03-2012
But that can cause bad blood between ecg players because it will force someone to log in small ship
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Madvillain - 02-03-2012
Yesterday I've seen some of the ECG mentality again.
Rage less and chill more ECG members.
Disco is a hobby , not a job
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Madvillain - 02-03-2012
~double post
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Rmorph - 02-03-2012
' Wrote:I haven't read every post in this thread so excuse me if this has been suggested.
Allow every member to own an ECG capital ship, but restrict the amount that can be online at a time. Say for every two snubs you have online, allow the third ship to be a cap. That way you can have a relatively balanced force without much QQ about capspam.
The first post, and a lot of the discussion basically define this as the best way to go.
Give ECG a rotation, or define a lvl of skill necessary, or training participation..
Also: Spread the fleet out:
Inshore squadron : gamma: 5 caps.
Offshore Squadron Omicron: 5 caps
Offshore squadron Sigma: 5 caps
15 caps there split into 3 regional groups that will never interfere with each other.
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - mc_Floyd - 02-03-2012
Oh my :lol: this thread is so good. lets see what i can rememeber, i really liked the first post so lets quote a bit from this
Quote:ECG players have a vast amount of resources. Nearly every ECG player has accumulated enough wealth to own more than one Cap.I guess the RP stuff is all said...please, really think about it. I have some really rare but nice experiences, where some of your guys tried to RP before they ganked...keep it up and it will get better.
You fear that the...
Quote:Corsair empire becomes the nation of ganked....shall i tell you what, the Corsair empire IS a "nation of ganked". Do you want to know why? Because everyone CAN gank them!
In your first post you are talking a lot of the skill of your members
Quote:Capital ship pilots shall be selected carefully after a demonstration of high skill levels.I hope this will start soon, because the most of your capitalship captains lack skill, beginning from the basics.
When you see 2 cruisers, a capship and 2 bombers whiping out 9 Osiris/Legates in a row without even being damaged...well it describes the skill level of your pilots very good.
But that is Ok as you said
Quote:Capital ships are one of the most satisfying gameplay options that Freelancer discovery has to offerYou know why? There is nothing bigger in this game, the Legate is one of the strongest capships (statwise) and when you shoot on smaller (nearly everything is smaller than a legate) targets the chance that you can destroy an enemy is way higher than in a snub. Appearently you got the feeling you had become an ace in this game, after playing it for four months and this feeling makes capships so satisfying...
Well, till the moment you fight against some guys who took their time to learn some basics of the game and the fighting system and whipe whole gamma with a few fighters/bombers.
Quote:The Corsairs can field more caps... or the Hessians can enter the system and wipe it out.More Corsair caps will just make more scrap flying around in crete in these situations.
As i mentioned before, the only chance to avoid these ganks is to bring fighters and bombers in these fights, but that is my personal oppinion.
At least you cant expect a player being able to fly a capship without any knowledge of how to fly a snub. Using a capships full potential is way more difficult than using a fighters or bombers. you promised in your first post, that only then sign of some skill will give ECG pilots the chance to bring a capital ship in orbit.
well make sure they can fly snubs and have learned the basics of fleet battles, before you let your men lead a whole crew in their obvious death.
Also think RPwise in the current situation in gamma, when you lose 4 caps fighting 8 hessian snubs and you kill the hessians at the end (what i really doubt, you really cannot kill any snub that pays attention with a cap ship), you however lost a hundred times more men than the hessians did and this is really not worth it.
From my personal experience as member of the [RHA], the only thing that stops a raid in gamma is the arrival of many snubs not the arrival of many caps. many caps will only make the ones in fighters, switch to their bombers :D
Well thats my 2cents and as i said in the beginning, keep up the good work, just overthink you Capship usage;).
Capital Ship Guidelines - Rules of engagement. - Rmorph - 02-03-2012
' Wrote:Yesterday I've seen some of the ECG mentality again.
Rage less and chill more ECG members.
Disco is a hobby , not a job
You might be referring to myself trying to enter Gamma in a Neutral freelancer ship (Sayonara) carrying medical supplies (elixirs from Oita) and getting blown up despite my attempt to either get a little dialog going or at least a one on one duel ( I knew I was going to meet a level of hostility).
Yeah I got a bit frustrated.. and my apologies to the TBH player for letting it show. I'll apologize to him when he's online- but if you're reading Alberto.Rodriguez[TBH] I salute you sir. Enjoy the Elixirs!
The fact is I have no right to dictate how others view RP and want to roll their characters.
Perhaps trying to pull this ECG stuff together I am in danger of becoming the arrogant "play-my-way-or-else S.O.B." that I see elsewhere as a problem.... I'll try and shape up.
:::
:::
Let me give you my take and see if it computes:
I'm a bit chatty by nature.. my ping is high so I'll never be much of a gunslinger (not to mention my rather meager talents will always limit me) so I almost have to explore the other rp avenues.
I try dialog first, even with sworn enemies.
Some people claim even that talking to an enemy is a violation of RP: But I laugh heartily: Engaging the PLAYER that is acting out that enemy is the essence of Role-play -Whether it's to curse their mother or offer them mercy.
If someone tells me that offering mercy to an Outcast is a violation of "The law" then I will happily break that law when I come across a guy playing OC who doesn't really want to engage. I'm thinking of the players enjoyment - not the pilots mission.
I saw in Eta once, that 10 of our guys killed one OC ship who typed //OOC in system and pleaded not to be engaged. I withdrew when they ganked him..
It was an RP justifiable act, but as an player-to-player act it was an unseemly gank.
That player may just have had his night ruined.
How very noble of me. Aren't I the superior git.
Perhaps this gives me a sense of self entitlement: I kind of expect the same courtesy of other players..
See how much I still have to learn? :-)
How very naive of me - how very condescending...
:::
:::
All I can say is that I'm not going to try too hard to ruin his night, or any players night, simply to fit into an RP designation.
I cant expect the same. I can't judge others for being different.
Especially: I can't expect everyone else on server wants to gab with me: It's a combat game after all.
Also - back to the issue at hand: It wasn't just a TBH guy that eventually opened fire on my "ambulance" there was also ECG: so.. its just about the way the rocks fall :-)
But: Lets be honest..
The few existing corsair factions are too few in numbers and resources to address this on the server properly. 2 of the 7 empires (OC and Corsair) have been bundled together as Hispania, and only have 4 factions between them, despite having a large percentage of casual, unregulated players.
Even the newly discovered Gallia empire has 4 factions for itself, and most of the other houses have 6 or 7 - never mind the other factions that spread the differences such as Hessians and Reapers..
This is a huge imbalance due to a lack of investment in the Corsair RP interests beyond a "village of determined fighters" mentality. We have become 2D caricatures of what a Space-faring warrior race could look like.
We dress in pirate costumes rather than spacesuits.
Corsair space has therefore become a shoot-first-taunt-later kinda place.
It attracts a lot of the "no time to RP lets kill each other crowd" and new players are drawn to it for exactly that... the RP elements are obscure and pushed back, and don't interfere at all with that mentality.
These are exactly the sort of players that end up rolling cap ships out of the mooring docks. (See - I managed to swing this back to the original topic. Barely).
My perspective as the "chatty" kind of Rp'er is that if Gamma got a little bit more "RP-civilized", the other stuff, such as cap-overload, and planet-gank, would lessen a bit.
OK. I'll put on my flameproof vest now: Your take on all this is very welcome.
::
Question: and I'm throwing it out here for genuine curiosity:
Do Corsairs have to be so paranoid in their home space when confronted with a single neutral ship carrying supplies to them that they will shoot it if it gets lippy?
Is there any room for mutual admiration if faced with equal cockiness.. surely a duel would be a better outcome that a gank?
Do we really have to act like daleks every time something scanning white enters our space?
This essentially requires that every player behind that pilot has to walk burning coals to interact with us from an RP perspective.. and from what I've seen this just adds to the sense of self-entitlement and elitism that is so prevalent in Corsair space: which in turn leads to the overload of noobs, lolwhuts, bullies, capwhores and planet-gankers in the system.
Damn my vocabulary has increased since i signed up here :-)
Your opinions welcome.
Rmorph.