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+--- Thread: Junker snubline (/showthread.php?tid=82957)
Junker snubline - TLI-Inferno - 07-30-2012
Well, firstly: One of the Junkers' unique characteristics is having multi-purpose ships. All Junkers are capable of mining and fighting, and some also of hauling.
When a junker convoy starts mining, they work fast. They have dedicated miners, and even the transports and escorts are capable of mining to contribute to the progress.
When a junker convoy gets stopped by pirates, the pirates aren't just fighting a couple of fighters. The miners can fight. The transports can fight. The escorts can fight. Some even have bomber torpedos for fighting capital ships.
When a junker has to fly by himself, he can mine for himself, haul for himself, and defend himself long enough to get to his destination.
Sure, junker ships tend to not be on parr for combat with their class, but that's fine, because they're capable of doing every single task.
Making ships that are purely for combat, with no mining or hauling capabilities, just wouldn't fit the Junker's style. Their ships need to at least have more than one purpose, to fit the Junkers' tradition.
So, if you make a combat-oriented ship, at least give it two different combat roles. For example, giving them a bomber; small size, and low hull, with fighter guns, and a bomber torpedo. Basically, a bomber that sacrifices the power of bomber guns for the accuracy of fighter guns. A rear-firing light fighter turret would be nice as well, with capability of receiving a mining bonus. It wouldn't be a very good mining ship, but it would still have the ability to satisfy Junker roleplay. It would basically be a Recycler with less size and hull.
I personally think the Recycler is an awesome concept. If all three turrets could fire forwards, it would be a nice ship. But with only five forward-firing guns, it simply doesn't have enough firepower against anything smaller than a transport, considering how big it is. It's a pretty easy kill for any fighter or bomber, at the moment. But, making all three turrets capable of firing forwards would somewhat fix this problem. A player might think "OP" but it wouldn't be. There are very much smaller ships, such as the nephthys, that can also shoot 7 weapons forwards, so the Recycler would not be overpowered with all turrets firing forwards. It would simply be a bit more useful. It's such an awesome fit, and so fitting to the Junker style; I just wish it had a bit more combat-efficiency. To balance out with all three turrets firing forwards, one could be a Light Fighter Turret, which most Junkers would use for mining.
I just want to see the Junker fighters be more viable, so we could start having Junker convoys with all different kinds of multi-purpose ships.
I don't think a bomber is necessary; that just doesn't fit into the Junkers' Multi-purpose niche. A SHF with a bomber torpedo and fighter guns, which they have, fits them more appropriately.
As for concepts for new junker ships, I'm liking these two from previous posts:
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/...yr/DSC00068.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll11/bl...on/Gitano03.png
And these would be great IF the round edges on the sides were cut off:
http://i26.tinypic.com/nnmbsi.jpg
Junker snubline - Swallow - 07-30-2012
Inferno, Your model of multi-purp. ships works only when junker player base will be times bigger, so it will be looking like IMG mining-convoy operations.
But for lonely junkers purely combat vessels would be good.
Also: here are better concept art of HF and LF:
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/.../DSC00069-1.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/...yr/DSC00070.jpg
Junker snubline - Vredes - 07-30-2012
' Wrote:http://i26.tinypic.com/nnmbsi.jpg
Want!
Junker snubline - TLI-Inferno - 07-30-2012
' Wrote:Inferno, Your model of multi-purp. ships works only when junker player base will be times bigger, so it will be looking like IMG mining-convoy operations.
But for lonely junkers purely combat vessels would be good.
Also: here are better concept art of HF and LF:
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/.../DSC00069-1.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/...yr/DSC00070.jpg
The VHF looks good, but the LF seems like a mini-spatial. Perhaps the (from pilot's point of view) left wing should be mirrored on the right, and then it would be an appropriate LF.
Also: Junkers make ships for the whole group; they don't design ships for some independent to fly around by himself. Anyone who wants a purely combat-oriented ship, with no mining or hauling orientation, to fly by himself, isn't really a Junker, and sounds like more of a Rogue who wants to pretend he's not a pirate when a lawful sees him.
If a junker is working alone, that's all the more reason to have multi-purpose, for mining for himself, transporting it himself, and defending himself. Junkers are scrap miners; if a lone Junker is flying around with no intention of ever having anything to do with mining or working with other Junkers, he's not really a Junker...
Junker snubline - Swallow - 07-30-2012
' Wrote:The VHF looks good, but the LF seems like a mini-spatial. Perhaps the (from pilot's point of view) left wing should be mirrored on the right, and then it would be an appropriate LF.Indeed like a mini spatial:D
Also: Junkers make ships for the whole group; they don't design ships for some independent to fly around by himself. Anyone who wants a purely combat-oriented ship, with no mining or hauling orientation, to fly by himself, isn't really a Junker, and sounds like more of a Rogue who wants to pretend he's not a pirate when a lawful sees him.
If a junker is working alone, that's all the more reason to have multi-purpose, for mining for himself, transporting it himself, and defending himself. Junkers are scrap miners; if a lone Junker is flying around with no intention of ever having anything to do with mining or working with other Junkers, he's not really a Junker...
Also, Crackpunch knows better junkers role and lore..so anything not related to the models should be headed to him.
He wants snubs - I do them.
It is a modeling thread not balance or lore..so..
Junker snubline - Ursus - 07-30-2012
' Wrote:http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/.../DSC00069-1.jpg1) chase cam wont be able to see the target
2) has no visual cues that tie it to any existing junker ship
Junker snubline - TLI-Inferno - 07-30-2012
' Wrote:Indeed like a mini spatial:D
Also, Crackpunch knows better junkers role and lore..so anything not related to the models should be headed to him.
He wants snubs - I do them.
It is a modeling thread not balance or lore..so..
Sure, sure. Just, models need to have characteristics that make them look as though they may have multiple purposes. Even if it's combat-oriented, it would need to be like an F-14 Tomcat, with all kinds of unique properties for different situations (Tomcat can bend its wings, fire machine-guns, missles, drop bombs, very versatile and cool jet before it stopped being used in favor of the Super Hornet a few years back).
Your drawings had the versatile look that a junker ship should have, which is why I said they were pretty cool. But your text below them is what I wasn't so sure about -- Making them single-purpose wouldn't really fit the Junker style.
Your HF even looks just like a refined version of the drawing that I had previously supported.
' Wrote:1) chase cam wont be able to see the target
2) has no visual cues that tie it to any existing junker ship
The junkers have no official color scheme. The only thing all of their ships need to have in common is to look like something that's had parts added to it. For example, being able to mine, haul, and fight. Or having an extra engine attached to it; missile pods put onto the sides; things like that. Things that make the ship look like Junkers have uniquely customized it to fit the individual pilot's needs.
Which gave me an idea -- What if, in the Junker Guard system, there was a Shipyard with multiple docking points (like some bases have had), and at each docking point, there are three variations of a ship; a basic one, which would be the smallest and fastest, and two others that have extra things added onto them, making them a bit larger, with orientation towards a bigger power core, more armor, or additional weapon mounts.
Each docking point would have one ship with the two extra variations of it.
Junker snubline - ryoken - 07-30-2012
Junkers need a pure combat vessal as to many unwanted are using junker bases, but junkers cannot stop them in space, and have to resort to FR5's. Would rather be able to inforce this in game with guns.
Also right now all the junker ships are under powered, and have more rear firing guns then forward. All the turrets are pretty much useless. Every other ship in game of equal class has more forward firing guns.
Only pure combat ships we have are imports, and under powered imports at that.
Sure junkers can use some civ ships, but with fully functional shipyards that can make transports, we need our own combat ships to for defence.
Sure we can run to base, but really what would then happen to said bases? We would have hordes of enemies in RP sitting outside waiting/blockading bases since junkers cannot chase them off with mining/trading/fighting ships. As said, they can last long enough to run and dock, but not fight off aggresors.
Junker snubline - Ursus - 07-30-2012
I'd like to see something based on the CTE line, with different textures, some claws and hooks for scrapping, etc. They should be highly effecient, low cost, we made this from civilian equipment and parts we had laying around.
Junker guns should be heavy hitting but short range. If you come at a junker he should knock you back on your heels, but not be able to chase you down that easily. Mostly defensive and area-denial, rather than tip-of-the-spear. I like the higher turret count on junker ships for that reason, but since turrets are mostly useless on a fighter it is kind of pointless to have them, and actually harmful since they make fighting more difficult. Maybe a couple of class-1 360 turrets would be good, would also add to the "we made it" feeling.
Junker snubline - TLI-Inferno - 07-30-2012
' Wrote:Junkers need a pure combat vessal as to many unwanted are using junker bases, but junkers cannot stop them in space, and have to resort to FR5's. Would rather be able to inforce this in game with guns.
Also right now all the junker ships are under powered, and have more rear firing guns then forward. All the turrets are pretty much useless. Every other ship in game of equal class has more forward firing guns.
Only pure combat ships we have are imports, and under powered imports at that.
Sure junkers can use some civ ships, but with fully functional shipyards that can make transports, we need our own combat ships to for defence.
Sure we can run to base, but really what would then happen to said bases? We would have hordes of enemies in RP sitting outside waiting/blockading bases since junkers cannot chase them off with mining/trading/fighting ships. As said, they can last long enough to run and dock, but not fight off aggresors.
This is why, in a previous reply, I had suggested giving more turrets the ability to fire forwards, so that individuals could gear themselves more towards fighting or mining simply by using either real weapons or mining turrets. However, having many rear-firing turrets on Junker vessels can also be used as a tool for effectively fighting enemies who are behind you, which other lines can't do.