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+--- Thread: What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) (/showthread.php?tid=83249)
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Agmen of Eladesor - 07-05-2012
I'll throw out my disclaimer that I'm a member of the K'Hara faction, as well as the faction leader of the official Bounty Hunter Guild faction, for those few people that don't know it.
And now for the fun:
' Wrote:Nomads deserve the same what other factions have. Not more or less.Please support your point, because Zynth pretty well destroys it here.
' Wrote:Let's talk numbers:Let's take a character, call him Jimmy ...
Bounty Hunters Guild is open.
Nomads is closed.
Jimmy applies to be a member of the official BHG faction, but his RP doesn't meet even our limited requirements. Actually, Jimmy is pretty much a douche. So we turn him down. Does this mean Jimmy is through, finished, kaput? Not at all - Jimmy is perfectly capable of still going out and buying BHG equipment, all of our ships, and even if he feels like it, setting up his own unofficial bounty hunter faction.
Jimmy applies to be a member of the K'Hara. He's still a douche, and gets turned down. NOW he's through, finished, and kaput - because guess what? K'Hara - Nomads - are a closed faction. It was set up that way in the beginning, and it remains that way now.
Does being a closed faction mean that they're elite and special people? Hell, no - they let me in, after all. Does that mean that people will get jealous because they're not in the faction and make snarky comments? I'd say we have our proof of that in this thread already.
But that's not just me thinking that.
' Wrote:Your way of thinking is wrong because I don't agree with it. That is how you come off Gov and it makes you appear extremely childish.
Contrary to what you think, the nomad factions are different from the human factions. Do they deserve gear that is far superior to what human factions have? No. The suggested cloak is not far superior to what human factions have. It is merely a different version with pros and cons itself.
' Wrote:@To the mods and admins: I think Govedo should be pointed the door out of this and any future nomad affiliated threads for the reasons of trolling, raging and insulting the nomad faction.
' Wrote:Fallen, I agree with you 100% on this. Huggie spent HIS time coding, testing, etc on these.
The rage and hatred is unneeded and uncalled for.
There ALMOST is a valid point here:
' Wrote:Nomad players first must decide what they actually want and give it in clear form that could be balanced towards all other kind of human technology- what Huggie made is to get some ideas together- I like his approach and I would like to keep it on topic. Discovery applied double standards for nomad factions a way too long and now it is kinda over so you need to deal with it and make some realistic proposal with real pros and cons. My point is that none faction/group etc should have better technology then others- this is the only way to keep the ball rolling without rage and problems that nomad related stuff caused in 4.85.
Haters and various trolls- if you find my posts offending do use the report function- simple as that but keep it here on the topic.
Bolded the nearly valid point. The reason it's only nearly valid is that ... Huggie happens to be the K'Hara Faction Leader. That means that just maybe, perhaps, in some slight manner, this topic might have already been discussed for the last six months in the K'Hara skype chats. Which means that we ARE presenting it in as clear a form as Huggie can make it, since he's the Faction Leader. He's never said he's an eloquent or literate person - merely capable. So he makes typographical errors and occasionally has poor word choice. Not a big deal as far as we're concerned. It also means, though, that unless he delegates it to someone else, it IS his job to present it FOR and on BEHALF of his faction.
As for the double standard - you seem to still be confused about something. What are the Nomads in Lore? Are they cute and fuzzy little teddy bears that you hug and snuggle in with when you go to sleep? Sweet and innocent little beings that are like tribbles, and wouldn't hurt a flea?
Nope, didn't think so. Said it before, I'll say it again. Nomads are the big, scary, OMG I see one I'm going to crap my pants and make sure my will is updated because I'm going to die space monsters that bring nightmares to your dreams - because they can BE in your dreams. It seems that the only rage about Nomad stuff from 4.85 is coming from ... you, Govedo. I was the member of, and faction lead, for the BHG| and BHG|Core for a hell of a long time before Yuri let me in the Nomads about 6 months ago. (As in more than 3 years of real time!) You think maybe I've fought my share of Nomads prior to being in the faction?
Now, do you want to know what's really sad about the Nomads as they are now? They're not scary. They're just some weird blue ships with funny RP that if you feel like it, you can simply ignore it. Perfect example from that in game last night. I was on my K'Hara gunboat and jumped right into the middle of an Order / Core style fight in Delta. Two years ago, there would have been an immediate cease fire as the Order and the Core fleets - and we're talking about 12 ships here - joined forces to attack the Nomad and MAYBE they would have killed it - but they would have also lost half their ships. Nomads were scary, and justifiably so. So what happened last night? One Core ship said, hey, you guys have an issue with me going and killing the Nomad? Y'all can keep fighting while I handle this chore. So all I COULD do was cruise off - because Nomads ships now are pathetic.
And that's just wrong.
Free cloaks for Nomads - maybe up their weapons about 50% in strength because while they shouldn't be able to one shot you, they SHOULD be a threat. Hell, we know we show up in space, we're going to get ganked. (Seriously - if you want to balance things, you should assume that it's going to ALWAYS be 3 or 4 to 1 human ships going against the Nomad and set things up that way. Again, sure was that way in New York last week when I went in there - 5 ships (including an AI fighter that shouldn't have participated) against my single Nomad cruiser.)
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Ipuvaepe - 07-05-2012
' Wrote:All nomad troubles could be solved by adding Liquid Cardamine as fuel on Mox ratings after making it perishable simple as that.You seem to be repeatedly missing the larger picture.
Nomad cloaks simply should not be balanced for exfiltration. They should be balanced for infiltration.
Jump Drive, I can guarantee you that if the normal (different fuel) jump drive was added to the marduk, k'hara would use human-made coords - this is only one problem with the idea. Nomads require an entirely different theory of balance, as such it just won't be a good idea to let them breach any system instantly.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-05-2012
' Wrote:Y'all can keep fighting while I handle this chore. So all I COULD do was cruise off - because Nomads ships now are pathetic.
Free cloaks for Nomads - maybe up their weapons about 50% in strength because while they shouldn't be able to one shot you, they SHOULD be a threat. Hell, we know we show up in space, we're going to get ganked. (Seriously - if you want to balance things, you should assume that it's going to ALWAYS be 3 or 4 to 1 human ships going against the Nomad and set things up that way. Again, sure was that way in New York last week when I went in there - 5 ships (including an AI fighter that shouldn't have participated) against my single Nomad cruiser.)
Good players within our ranks barely make us a threat anymore.
One of the best capship drivers I know (alley) is a deadly force in an irra but even with her help and our fooling around we cant do the job of being the antagonist. Could blame bad strategics on my part but frankly it takes alot of effort to train new members and to get people into the alien "head space" needed for this faction.
I wanted to avoid saying it. But this is simply the truth. What I've been doing in the past few weeks is working along the current designs and code for the plugins cannon and team have labored (FOR LITTLE APPRECIATION) to give to this community.
This is the most amount of work im going to put into this because without acknowledgement or feedback from the devteam im wasting time. Im wasting my factions time and im wasting the communities time.
So here I am On my knees. begging. Im serious folks
Im begging for some sort of acknowledgement as to what "The bosses" of this place want us to be. Either fulfilling our job as equal opportunity destroyers.
or just fade away into an npc faction. Ive gotten no word either way except from select individuals and admins.
well need a small bit of support.. but i sware to god i can tweak the numbers i can mod the files.. ive been doing this stuff since i was 15 years old!
I can see why yuri took off and frankly im running out of options to keep my members inspired and activity up other then lying (pollyanna hope) to the new morphs "its going to get better".
I understand if your busy.
I understand if your feeling burnt out.
I just need to know. im trying desperately to work with you... volunteer my time and experience where I can.. ANYTHING. just.. let me know. please.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-05-2012
sorry for double posting in my own topic but i had to clean myself up abit.
On task.
Those who are unsure about... the jumpdrives.. would it make better sence if we didnt "have" survey modules?
IE the inability to input coords? That might be beyond what the plugin can do... then again there can be a console denail for certain commands.. but im sure there would be a round about way to accomplish it.
The onyl real reason again why i wanted the jumps was to be able to pop into the outskirts of a system at random.
Second Id be more then giddy to drop nom jumps all together.. But consider the survey inability.?
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Ipuvaepe - 07-06-2012
' Wrote:Those who are unsure about... the jumpdrives.. would it make better sence if we didnt "have" survey modules?No, it really wouldn't. The problem with coordinate metagame is only one small facet of the overall jumping nommie problem. The ability to pick any system and raid it with almost no work-up time is simply overpowered. Yes the nomad ships got a pretty huge nerf, but it's all about numbers. I have seen groups of six K'Hara four in capitals lolraiding before (won't name names), letting that half hour raid time become two minutes simply should not happen.
IE the inability to input coords?
Of course, this could always justify some joint Wilde-K'Hara operations...
Perhaps finally expand the Outcast-Nomad relationship? It's been a long time since I've read the nomad lore, but it wouldn't be the first time something inconvenient was thrown out because it became too inconvenient.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-06-2012
Well i guess ill have to take your word for it. As in the inability to do coords well. i dont think we would pick a system to raid. also.. random jumps in my exsperience put you 200k from the center of the map?
As for being raided.. you must be fortunate.. I dont think weve done that in awhile. not that its anything to apologise about. How i see this faction is less "raking up kills" and more "setting the tone" for the setting of disco itself either way the success or fail of a nomad jump raid 4 hours later you can go back to that system (or if you ask me unless you are in our home systems you can come right back after the event) the point is we got one job.
it isnt trading
it isnt piracy.
its just simple terror.
and thats where I hit this idea, that im getting from some folks, "They want us but they dont want us."
I mean common guys the whole making everyone "manageable" is killing the fun of this place. Space should be dangerous and while were a rare sight it should speak to a hint of that danger from the unknown.
Folks who treat this venue (the server) and just pvp balance pvp pvp balance.. are loading the one side of the scale too heavily.
Everyone needs to make up thier mind. and figure out how they view the balance of the mod in regards to us.
Either you trust/want 'us' to put the "Capable and non ass players" in this faction for new/newb folks and thus others to aspire to or think the server needs to go in another direction.
Like one that 'we' dont need to be in cause its little more then cyber/trading/bluemsg and perusing some pvp balancing perfection that is unobtainable.
Theres a lot id like to pose and fix. or.."change" but my plates full with this faction. A faction Id like to think has no self interest other then entertaining the rest of this community as its bad guys.
And if you think the k'hara are violating this role now? you tell me and you tell me whos been bad. and ill take care of it.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Govedo13 - 07-06-2012
I would simply ignore the hate spilled in my direction and would continue on the topic.
Bringing points like nomads are closed so they are outnumbered are plain silly- open the nomads then, or nomads must have better gear because they have many enemies- ok give Battlestar to the Indie pirates too because they are shot by lawfuls and unlawfuls and so on....
I expected more from experienced players really- and more on topic.
Nomads must have different gear not better gear- because they are different, being different does not automatically means to have better PvP sticks or ships or Devices-there is difference between different and overpowered right?
After small consideration having enhanced jump drive system as nomad should be good thing- mostly because the game mechanics does not allow Nomads to resupply often and they need to fly a lot in hostile environments without having a base nearby. Considering that I would like to see the nomads able to move freely and fast from Omicrons to Core space one- sadly I have no concept how to do it- options would be nice. May be if nomads give up the rest of the devices in order to have one OP device it should be fine and balanced- so deciding if you want to have cloaks that are better and cloaks only or if you want to have Jumpdrives on each ships so you could fast switch systems and attack/terrorise but only Jumpdrives.
I personally would go for the Jumpdrives- docking modules are kinda useless and Cloaks are tools for avoiding interaction in their current form.
I am totally against the cloak proposed like that because it allows nomads to avoid interactions all the time and it is kinda dull mostly because of that.
My idea about the nomad ship looks to make them different a bit:
First concept:
No bots no armour- all ships get the proper amount of hull added to them (x2.5 snubs x4 caps + bot value- Nomads safe ton of credits for buying armours),
20 % better shield regen and 20% bigger shields instead of bats- it is better then bats.
All ships get small hull regen- fighters 1000 hull per minute, bombers 2000, Gbs 5000, cruisers 20 000, battleships 50 000- I am not sure if it works- it could be possible when the ship reaches full hull to bug but it is worth trying.
Nomads should have good defensive capabilities but not so good offensive capabilities by this concept.
Second concept- remove the armour of the nomad ships -keep the bots increase their gun efficiency 50% together with their Gun DPS.
This concept is simple- Nomads have good offensive capabilities but bad defensive capabilities.
Both concepts have pros and cons.Comment?
Current situation is that nomad ships are balanced like human ships- and you does not like it because in previous versions they were OP. 4.85 Nomad ships had no cons- now they have and you need to deal with it.
So again I agree that the nomads should be different but hell I cannot agree that they must be OP again.I mean there should be way to make the nomads scary again without breaking the PvP balance much and without breaking the fun for the other side too.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - jakub963 - 07-06-2012
I would simply ignore the hate spilled in nomad direction and would continue on the topic(which was nom cloaks/docks/jumps not ship/weapons balance). And preffer to end the mostly onesided hate-war(I expect more from an experienced player - but more on topic).
The cloak are neat and they would finaly give us opportunity to use more the telepathy and less the guns. Kudos to the masternom. Jumps, docks would be nice but thats about it. I, personaly dont feel they are needed but thats my opinion.
Also finaly some dev input would be nice.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Agmen of Eladesor - 07-06-2012
' Wrote:Current situation is that nomad ships are balanced like human ships- and you does not like it because in previous versions they were OP. 4.85 Nomad ships had no cons- now they have and you need to deal with it.
So again I agree that the nomads should be different but hell I cannot agree that they must be OP again.I mean there should be way to make the nomads scary again without breaking the PvP balance much and without breaking the fun for the other side too.
Almost, Gov, almost.
Current situation is that nomad ships are balanced like human ships and we don't like it because it's OORP for Nomads.
I've said it before, and since I feel like it gets ignored, I'll say it again.
The K'Hara are not a trading faction, out to make money. We have lots of those.
The K'Hara are not a military faction, out to enforce house laws. We have lots of those.
The K'Hara are not a pirate faction, out to steal things from you. We have lots of those.
The K'Hara are not a mercenary faction, out to earn money by shooting people. We have lots of those.
The K'Hara are not a human faction - again, we have lots of those.
So what ARE the K'Hara?
The K'Hara are the only authorized and canon alien race in the game. They don't trade. They don't pirate. They're a money sink for the players that run these characters, because the K'Hara can't MAKE credits on their ships. So what CAN the K'Hara do?
Kill you. Suck your brains out. Cause you to have nightmares because you saw one of their ships. Infect and/or infest you if you're willing to RP with them. As Huggie said, when you encounter Nomads, the ONLY thing you should experience is pure terror and fear. Their ships SHOULD be more powerful on a case by case basis.
And yes, they SHOULD be treated as an exception to the balance rules, because they ARE the exception to the human standard. Are the Nomads / K'Hara an elite faction? Hell, no - like I said before, they let ME in, after all. If they were elites, you'd only see PvP superstars like Kaze in there. But - and I'll repeat myself - they ARE an exception faciton.
You say that you want the Nomads to be scary? Make a proposal. Shoot some ideas out there. You're telling us what you want and complaining about it without giving any alternative.
I'll throw an alternative out if you're persistent in keeping weapons as they are - give Nomad players the ability to type /dropshield as a console command and the ship that they're targeting has it's shields drop for 1 minute. Now, before you scream and rave how unbalanced that is - hey, we're (a) not talking about everyone on the server having this ability and (b) think about it - you want to fight a Nomad, now suddenly they're weapons are the same strength as yours, but they can give themselves a tactical advantage if they want to do so.
OMG, Carl, are you insane? That would make the Nomads WAY overpowered! I submit to you that any group that in RP has the ability to grow (!) a ship / vessel / being that is capable of one-shotting a planet (anyone seen Toledo lately?) SHOULD be more powerful than any of their enemies ships of the same class. Anything less is simply being, quite honestly, unfair and dishonest to the idea that this is supposed to be a role-play server.
The PvP balance is already broken because some people are inherently better than others. So how about we drop that broken record already, m'kay?
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Dashiell - 07-07-2012
make noms scary sure. give em some proper kit, sure.
1 thing I would like to stop then is nom players complaining about ganks. 1 uber ship equals 2 lesser ones, for example. (2 makos / ossies on 1 marduk)
But like i said, give em proper terror-kit, sure.