+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+--- Thread: Focus of Mod Development (/showthread.php?tid=83317)
Focus of Mod Development - Durandal - 07-12-2012
I know that Nico, but the reason I avoided citing the RoS and CR as examples is because at the time you were and Doom is a global dev, and my logic on those is that they should stick to generally unaffiliated stuff like I said.
@Your edit
I don't really have a legit reference point outside of the HF but what I'm saying goes for every official faction out there.
Focus of Mod Development - Lohingren - 07-12-2012
such situations should be scorned even more so than what HF and SCRA have done. Technically i didnt (well i did but lets say it for arguments sake) have to go through anyone which puts us (RoS and CR) at an unfair advantage.
EDIT: But my main point is i do believe faction input and say can and should be done, Aslong as said people trying to push said changes do it in a fair and mature manner. And dont go out their way to step on toes which has and will happen again in the past and future.
EDIT2: I had this descussion with you before to be honest justin, the moment we (SCRA/RoS/HF/CR) became integrated into the mod we gave up our 100% absolute will of the faction, ofcourse we should govern what happens to our factions obviously but input and changes should also be done by the community as a whole aslong as it aint unreasonable or just blatantly trolling us into the floor. The faction we ourselves created from our imaginations no longer entirely belong to us after we decided to make it into disco lore. It became discos property and should ofcourse be up for descussion as much as any other faction out there vanilla or not.
But ofcourse i dunno why i brought this up cause its entirely off topic hahaha.
Another EDIT: My main point really though is, We are all a part of this mod now, Be you a vanilla faction leader, the Leader of a closed faction (RoS, HF) Leader of an Open non vanilla Faction (Gallia, CR, SCRA) an Admin or even a Dev team member or Leader. We all put ourselves upto the hammer of others opinions. If we all work toward actually working our factions together without putting personal feelings in the way and actually listen to one another and see Reason (myself included here), Everyone should have a right of say in what happens with them not just the Dev team, Certainly not one man with a Title (Faction leaders and Dev Leaders or even Cannon himself)
We are a community here not a group of businessmen looking for profit afterall.
Focus of Mod Development - Blodo - 07-12-2012
Ok guys, if I may interject, who gives a tiny about who did what for whom? The point of this thread as far as I can tell is pushing micro updates and criticising dev team organisation. Here's the issue with the latter and a bit of the former: the dev team is unpaid and busy with a lot of different arrangements, people who want to join the dev team either have no skills to contribute and little to no willingness to learn, or their attitude risks the already difficult discourse within the dev team to be completely unbearable when it comes to actually deciding stuff. The vast majority of people do not want to join the dev team altogether, they are perfectly happy being on the other end of the shotgun where there are no obligations, just the ability to endlessly criticise. The reason why there are dev team leaders is this: to resolve differences where people just do not want to agree nor compromise. Because even at this point it is difficult to decide something in a reasonable stretch of time. Remember when there were no team leaders in 4.86 development? Result? Dev work took 3 years for a timeline that was originally 1 year. Yes, it may be far from perfect after Cannon's reorganisation, but I will argue that it certainly is a whole lot better than it used to be.
And on to the biggest issue with "dev team sucks" arguments. You want more community participation and less management positions, and then you are angry when dev work is unstructured and generally disorganised. So, the tide turns towards stronger management positions to improve efficiency - and now there is not enough "freedom". So which way do you want to go? There is no "both", this is not a full time team, and it's burning its rubber through the myriad of demands that this community puts on it.
Seriously guys, put away your own bias before trying to accuse dev team of being biased.
Focus of Mod Development - ssc - 07-12-2012
Webster Dictionary Wrote:Bias - bi·as:
A particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.
Webster Dictionary Wrote:Prejudice - prej·u·dice:From what I have read, none of what has been typed is bias, for those seeking to gain from the subject at hand. The word that would discrabe the situation in this topic is "objective". As the definition states, only ones that are bias are the Devs at the moment. From what I have read on forums that are linked to Discovery is that the Dev Team does not care for, and thus, withholding their acknowledgements of the community after a certain time. The people that have posted this on forums, discussing their fustrations with the mod, number of things may have been fixed, but they have also overlooked from the Player Aspect. The freedom to choose what they want to use user created material is what adds to the player expirence, however, many aspects, as I said, have been overlooked. The Dev Team is also responsible for the server admins they had selected. Now, the server admins use their powers for their own benifit and dictate their own "Laws", as it were, on the server. Factions removed that could have had a function, Factions that remain that have no function at all, Ships that people want replaced or removed, there are a number of parts of discovery that has been overlooked and been set aside, for they believe that it has no use in the mod, in which they have created.
an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
It is those with a open mind, that ask the questions that must be answered. Other development teams of other games and such, look at the aspects as a Dev and a Player. Weeding out the problems as much as possible and attempting to keep it balanced and sometimes asking the community to contribute. The Dev Team and Server Admins do not care and simply, ignore everyone else that isn't a friend to them. I, myself have done some administration on games with RPG features and FPSs. In my action, I try to be unbias torwards the player that is causing problems. If the Player is having trouble and is asking for help, I anwser and ask what the problem is. When I don't have admin on another server, I still try to help someone out with a problem. The issue here isnt that people are being bias, and I use the term loosely. It's the players want to create what they feel they can do, but since most take things out of perportion of what it is originally, those that want to prevent such abilities are being bias.
To allow such abilities, would grant many to make their own, but the Devs had restricted this from much of the mod and the forums. Reason, the people that have stayed the longest on the forums, most don't want change, which is inevitable. In order for change, a great number of users would have to say they want a change, in order to force it onto those who must make the decision with a wager against them. With all change come risks, and everyone has to make that risk, sooner or later. The choice for the Dev team might come sooner if more people begin to speak out, demanding what they want as a whole. Many have the creativity, but have no way to express it on Discovery for the reasons that I may have left unvoiced. Every person has a chance to speak their peice, some will agree, others will not. Choice should be left to the majority, those that may be affected by this aspect, that may see as a opportunity.
Focus of Mod Development - Echo 7-7 - 07-13-2012
' Wrote:... The Dev Team is also responsible for the server admins they had selected....
You actually have no idea how the system works, do you?
Focus of Mod Development - ssc - 07-13-2012
Those first selected, are choosen by the Dev Team to monitor the server and kick out the rule breakers. Attempting to say that the Devs have no control over the Server Admins, this is flawed. The people on the server didnt get admin by saying, "Give me admin.", and get it. They had to be selected by someone, that someone may be the Devs. If the Devs gave someone else the job of selecting the Server admins, it is still their fault for allowing such individuals to have such rights.
Focus of Mod Development - Echo 7-7 - 07-13-2012
' Wrote:Those first selected, are choosen by the Dev Team to monitor the server and kick out the rule breakers. Attempting to say that the Devs have no control over the Server Admins, this is flawed. The people on the server didnt get admin by saying, "Give me admin.", and get it. They had to be selected by someone, that someone may be the Devs. If the Devs gave someone else the job of selecting the Server admins, it is still their fault for allowing such individuals to have such rights.
Igiss was both Head Admin and Lead Developer while he was around. Since Admins are not always developers, he chose Admins separately from his fellow developers.
Currently, Cannon now fills the same role, as Lead Developer and (I assume) Head Admin. Developers still decide who gets to become a Developer in charge of a particular area, and only Admins are allowed to vote on Admin applications. Devs do not get to vote on Admin or Moderator applications.
edit: ohai Zelot, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Focus of Mod Development - Mobutu - 07-14-2012
I agree 100% with everything Ironwatsas said.
Focus of Mod Development - Thyrzul - 07-15-2012
' Wrote:Discovery will NEVER have a situation where factions control their lore while the dev team only does civilian and unaffiliated work.The ideal system would be one which allows a dialogue between a faction and the Dev Team regarding that faction's lore.
- The Dev Team sets the basic environment and opportunities the faction can live in, use, etc.
- The faction decides from several possible actions, paths they want to go on
- After the choice has been finally made, the Dev Team then submits the consequences realted to the decision
@ssc
To me you seem to be vaguely accusing the Admins to abuse their powers and making the Dev team to be responsible for this. The following quote made me chuckle:
' Wrote:Now, the server admins use their powers for their own benifit and dictate their own "Laws", as it were, on the server.What you say is funny because we all know that the server rules are public and accessible to everyone. Now what I see is a wall of text with many accusations, but without any evidences to back them. This way you look like a barking dog, with no genuineness. For your own good, you should cut it now.
Focus of Mod Development - ssc - 07-15-2012
There are times where I have asked admins for help. They dont respond at all, even if its a simple question that someone would feel a admin would anwser better. Also a number of reports of Admins breaking engagement rule and simply firing on anyone cause theyre flying through.
And it is the Dev Team at fault. The following happens with Disco:
Dev Team creates mod;
Dev Team selects someone to select admins;
That "Someone" selects people at random instead of using a evaluation;
Server Admins abuse rights and ignore server placed rules
I have had a account before, a freighter pilot. Simply minding my own buisness in a Camara Freighter in Rhienland, when some Admin in a bomber comes and just kills me for no reason, no warnings what so ever. Rhienland Bomber. So don't tell me the Devs are not responsible for the Admins that were selected. They should have selected or set a system to select admins that wont abuse their rights, instead of using, "A Third Party" person/group for the selection of the admins.