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+--- Thread: The Raven's Claw (/showthread.php?tid=9058)
The Raven's Claw - tfmachad - 06-03-2008
' Wrote:...Not a lot, but you see them. Now, if you mean the Raven's Claw (the ship discussed on this thread, then yes, you're right).
I mean you don't see corsairs in Raven's Talons right?
...
' Wrote:...
That would help with a lot of problems.
' Wrote:I could write up a list of all the ships in the game and which ID's/factions are allowed to use them, but it'd likely leave out special exemptions (terrorist ID's, nuetral ID's, etc.)I think the ships that really need restricting are those that have a strict association with an (or more) specific faction, like military ships (that include things like Titans and such). I'm still not convinced that civilian/black market hardware shouldn't be widely available.
It would be easiest if someone posted a list of every npc faction in the game, and I could go off of that.
Also, if this is to be taken seriously, these restrictions (and specially the means to come to terms with regulating over them) should be given a great deal of consideration in order for them to be something useful rather than a clogging mechanism.
First problem that comes to mind are ships that were presented to characters/factions that aren't the ones to which the ships were originally destined to. How do you fit these exceptions into such ruling?
/hijack ends
' Wrote:I'd say LSF and Phantoms only. Just because the ship was built by Kishiro doesn't mean they get to fly it. The LSF stole it from Honshu along with everything else to go with it. If they really wanted to continue building the ship after the LSF stole it, it'd be on their base as well.I can accept this, but with some reserves. I mean, how do you go about completely eradicating traces of a ship's development from a development team? It's an not so easy task to steal plans, but to completely eliminate traces of the development you'd have a lot of trouble, involving eliminating all related data from every bank, backup, laptop, paper and whatever other medium you pick for storing info, AND kill everyone involved in the original project. The infocard goes about stating that "this ship was stolen from Planet Honshu by LSF agents". That's a very ambiguous sentence. This could either be plans or a prototype. Either way, if they were engaged in coming up with the ship, they'd either come up with the same design or a very similar (probably even better) design from their original idea.
...
An interesting scenario would be Kishiro being involved in a defense contract dispute and its engineers were coming to terms with the development of the Raven's Claw. The competition (I'll say Ageira as a matter of a fitting example) learned about Kishiro's plans and development and in a political play got LSF involved with hindering the Kusarian team. Kishiro came up with the original Raven's Claw design and prototype, but LSF came "StoleItLolzed" (sorry, couldn't resist) it. Kishiro couldn't come to terms with rebuilding a prototype in time for the dispute and lost the contract. Without a client, they would simply give up on the project.
Whoever managed the stunt in Ageira of having the LSF steal the ship, didn't have enough leverage left to get their hands on the stolen ship. LSF would then have that stolen ship in their docks and someday one of their engineers would say, "Hey, that's an interesting design and concept. Maybe we could replicate this and make ourselves a ship." Then it ended up being a LSF ship. Being the LSF a secret agency as it is, they'd be able to fly the ship without raising too much eyebrows concerning the original theft. That's a darn good reason for the Joe Does (specially the official ones) not to be flying the ships in the first place. The guys in Kusari wouldn't really like it, and it wouldn't look good for Liberty to be officially involved in transnational robbery.
That would make my answer be LSF and Phantoms. Don't think it's a design really fitting for Kishiro's needs, even though they could come up with something similar, not the same ship.
The Raven's Claw - Elvin - 06-03-2008
But noone can just say " We can use it cos its sold on our base " ... If that is so, certain Kusari companies are using Order ships and so on... It the same like with weapons... And Kishiro surely can have them, or you think that when one get stolen they will throw away all plans and kill all people who constucted it? I doubt that.
The Raven's Claw - n00bl3t - 06-04-2008
' Wrote:There are serious differences between a nomad ship and a fighter availible on a pretty open lawful base.
But other than that you are right in your second part that agrees with what I said, balance the ships and this won't be an issue.
If you restrict the ship, then what happens to the pvp whores that like to fly it? They get the tag that allows the ship and are still doing the same stuff they do now. Restricting the ship thinking that's some magic bullet against pvp whoring is not looking at things logically. The PvP whores will get the loadout and ship they think is best no matter what ID they have to use.
You have a point there. LSF interact more with players than keepers do.
Balancing all ships isn't an option. It's done okay enough now. Except for the BH Cruiser (that thing is a tank with starflea maneuverability).
Hmm, yeah it's true, they will. They'll just end up being sanctioned for it over and over again.
The Raven's Claw - tfmachad - 06-04-2008
' Wrote:But noone can just say " We can use it cos its sold on our base " ... If that is so, certain Kusari companies are using Order ships and so on... It the same like with weapons... And Kishiro surely can have them, or you think that when one get stolen they will throw away all plans and kill all people who constucted it? I doubt that.It depends (not the killing part, that's just reductio ad absurdum). If the ship was build for themselves, not likely. If the plans were stolen and wiped out, not likely. But then again you have to ask why would a corporation produce a military spec ship (or a ship special enough for a militarized agency to be attracted to stealing it for that matter) so they could fly around escorting their shipments. For all I know, Kishiro isn't really involved in any sort of militarized operations, so I'd say it's likely that they would be fulfilling a defense contract of some kind with the original concept that originated the Raven's Claw.
I would even go as far as saying that the ship that is today the Raven's Claw is likely a modification of the original concept, probably with some sort of makeover, maybe even a different hull design (it doesn't strike you a lot as a Kusarian design that one).
Either you'd have to have a Kusarian variant of the same ship (even if it's the same ship sold in a Kusari base, or at the very least a mention that it's still produced in Kusari), or one could say that the project was dropped on the Kusari side, while LSF stuck with producing their version of the stolen project.
The Raven's Claw - Rabid_American - 06-04-2008
' Wrote:A thought: What if ships came with permitted IDs listed in their infocards?
I think this is a good idea..it would make it much easier for noobs as well to see what they can fly with what faction instead of having to PM someone in game..or write a thread on here
The Raven's Claw - AdamantineFist - 06-04-2008
LSF and Kishiro, definitely. It specificaly states on its infocard that it was stolen by the LSF for covert ops. Now, if it was good enough for covert ops, then they're not gonna sell it for ten bucks (or even 2 million) at a garage sale, now are they?
Kishiro is a bit more iffy, though if Kishiro produced it then it would obviously be for the military. Still, it's always possible that production was dropped on the Kusari end.
The Raven's Claw - Heartless - 06-04-2008
LSF, give'em their little special LSF signature ship.
The Raven's Claw - Zapp - 06-04-2008
Put all allowed IDs in a ship's infocard, and make having an ID that's not on that list be a sanctionable crime? Ummmm... No. Too messy, too many cases of annoying exceptions. Examples: [BLS]-Carina is a Templar, the Bretonian VHF, with an OC ID. Wesley.Richter[LWB] is a Wrath, the Rheinland VHF, with a, you guessed it, LWB ID. The Fantasia is a Bretonian Battleship, with an OC ID. Its these little things that makes the suggestion infeasable.
Voted LSF only, as far as I'm concerned, though Jason Moore (first FL then LH) flew one for a while. There's always an exception to everything, which is why we can't have concrete rules. Oh, and for everyone in the LPI, when I said "always", I meant "every time but LPI with anything but Vengeances/Debs: NO BUCKSHOTS EVER!!!!!1"
And if you ever see an indie LPI in a RC, arrest him for impersonating an officer of the Law. Seriously.
The Raven's Claw - sovereign - 06-04-2008
' Wrote:And if you ever see an indie LPI in a RC, arrest him for impersonating an officer of the Law. Seriously.
Yessir. I wonder what else we can tag onto the [LPI].....
The Raven's Claw - DW-Suzanna - 06-04-2008
I have flown ravensclaw since I first set foot in this server and do not wish to change it! There is absolutely no good reason to suddenly limit who it is available to.