(02-03-2014, 02:16 PM)Mercarryn Wrote: With that said, I object the accuse of knowing of the base attack by metagaming.

(02-03-2014, 02:25 PM)Sheaim Wrote: Guys...

This is just another flame war here, or am I mistaken?

From what I gather both sides did things they should have not done and both parties are equally quilty here - the VR of moving a fleet into the system and a series of tactical errors and the RM of a little metagaming and an oversized gank fleet.
And yet everything I see here are two sides flaming each other over ONE INCIDENT that happend in a GAME.
You're behaving like children here. Why can't you just acknowdlege that both of you made mistakes and shake hands and agree to try not to allow such things happen again, hm?

Anyways, as for my feedback - it's poor. All I got in my DSE was "A rare sight - a DSE with legal goods" kind of stuff, all one-liners. And my report about pirates in Sigma 13 (there were four of them at the time) got ignored or met a "meh" kind of reaction.
There were four indies and at least one official RM - by the way the only one who noticed a Liberty ship in Rheinland space. You guys just love hanging around New Berlin doing absolutely nothing, eh?
I'd like to see some more than "how odd" kind of reaction. And I expect you to act on the pirate reports in your ZoI.
Overally not much happens, even when you are online. Change it.
See you in space!

Skyscryer_II

Speaking purely as an individual, I quite enjoyed the interaction earlier this evening. True, the fleet appearing at Zwickau rather then en-route was questionable from my perspective, but that's already been addressed. That incident aside, the interaction with Lutz Torwald beforehand was fun, and I appreciate you guys offering us a bit of conversation before the plasma started flying. It's nice to see a bit of activity around, and hopefully we can co-ordinate things better in future.

Also, that battleship uncloaking underneath us was quite possibly the scariest thing that's happened to one of my characters in-game in some time.

(02-03-2014, 01:57 PM)ichiru Wrote: InRP, the military at the time of the attack had no way of knowing this. They found out through a metagame from one of our members (which was very naughty of him too).

When they found it out through other members of you, it could be called spies in your ranks? Other than that, it was also a way to promote activity. Finding each other sooner, why not?

The only contact that we had before we were attacked was in Hamburg, which does not provide enough information to say that we were going to end up near Zwickau Depot.

That indeed left them with less information than I thought, but nonetheless it was quite reasonable to look in the system where the threatened base would be.

The military didn't know this iRP. All they knew was that a ship was being moved into Rheinland.

Put two and two together.

At the time of the attack, the Bundschuh had not yet made any communication saying that they were going to attack SGHQ

Except that the VWA sent a transmission adressed to the administration of the base who happens to be of military/mnd origin too. See here: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=111352

Even if you had found us without using OORP methods, there was no reason, no reason for the military to bring 5 Cruisers (at least 3 with Sollies), 2 Bombers, a VHF, and a Battleship to deal with a single battleship, a gunboat, 2 Heavy Fighters, and an SHF.

Afaik in indie chat there were reports that you'd have about three battleships. That information was most likely gathered through playerlist™, or ingame scouts (can't tell which), so everyone logged their anti-capital things. When it turned out to be a less capital-oriented fleet, I suppose not everybody could be bothered to relog to a different ship.

The fleet appeared about 2 minutes after we got into Dresden. The fleet wasn't there when we were moving all the ships

So you were found quite quickly.

We didn't have the numbers for 6 bombers and 1 battleship. Not to mention half the people were Natio Octavarium anyway and their bombers were halfway across Sirius. There were also several solarisboats and snubs too. It's pretty much impossible to counter with such a small force + 30 seconds notice.

Considering you had a lot of snubs in this case it would've been an easy thing to just escape? Especially since the Frankfurt hole isn't far. Same goes for the VR ships. Through some jumphole sequence blocking you could've helped the battleship to escape when you realized there were people coming after you. That you were overwhelmed with the numbers has been acknowledged, but again, you had alternatives. Same goes for the military guys. I used to preach every now and then in the indie chat to stay back when there was a fight going on that was already heavily unbalanced (taking more factors than numbers into account, that is).

Lovely ad hominem here. And it's never legit to metagame and send a huge gankforce to anyone, that's just ruining the fun of the other players and is not what being an official faction is about.

There are plenty of other explanations when you don't instantly go "metagame!" and think about the situation a little more.

There were several BDM and RM official ships there, and -all- of them stayed to the very end even when there was only one VWA ship left, and -all- of them attacked me in their cruisers and battleships and snubs.

It seems that at this point you have already lost the fight. Offering duels at that point of time would not seem in accordance to the 'No survivors, no witnesses' rule that is so often inflationary applied.

• We weren't expecting to have our position revealed through metagaming and leading an entire capfleet into a cloud is terrible tactics anyway. Think back to the 80 Year war. Not that we should have to fly 40k off the plane to have RP without being met by a gankforce anyway, that's completely unreasonable
  
• We couldn't counter the enemy forces considering half of us didn't have bombers, there were less of us, and you had solaris equipped cruisers
  
• At least 50% of the force was made up of official faction players and they also failed to move away once they had completed killing all but one.
  

80 year war is totally taken out of context right now. Again, changing positions on an irregular basis would've helped you not getting discovered. I see your point with the entire capfleet, but I trust that Lobster had her reason to do so.

Well for one you weren't even there so you don't get to try and tell me the circumstances of a fight that I was in, and you're just plain rude to legitimate feedback given

Apologies for appearing rude in my responses, I'm just trying to defend the decisions made by members as long as they seem reasonable. Especially when how it comes to the activity gained is called metagaming etc.

(02-03-2014, 11:34 AM)Lobster Wrote: We were not fighting for fun