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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Enkidu - 02-26-2014
(02-26-2014, 03:00 PM)Divine Wrote:(02-26-2014, 02:37 PM)Treewyrm Wrote: ...to separate the rest into friend or foe by deciding if a person is with them or against. Either. Or. Else?Good enough, yet lacks a minor detail. It's,...
"You're either with me, or against us"
My opinion is right, and should you disagree, I'll blow my opinion out to the scale claiming it to be everyones opinion leaving you to be the only one against us.
Correct Divine, this is exactly the objective of a debate. I'll continue to do so until the opinions of the majority (note, not mine alone, what everybody I've conversed to over the subject state), are accurately represented to ingame consequence, or I receive a sanction for overstepping the mark. Is that really so much to demand for the sake of open dialogue?
Edit: As aforementioned, my opinion is right, from my point of view, and should you disagree (from which disagreement you will believe your own opinion to be equally right), I will blow it to a state where you through to the crew of the ISS will be able to see what we (a collective term), are moaning over. That is; a lack of democracy.
Edit: As aforementioned, my opinion is right, from my point of view, and should you disagree (from which disagreement you will believe your own opinion to be equally right), I will blow it to a state where you through to the crew of the ISS will be able to see what we (a collective term), are moaning over. That is; a lack of democracy.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Highland Laddie - 02-26-2014
Achille: something you and others may be forgetting is that this isn't a town hall meeting, nor is this a democracy.
The Admins/Devs don't really OWE it to you to give you a vote...or make your vote have any consequence whatsoever.
Your opinion, right or wrong as you think it may be, didn't matter before you joined this server, and it doesn't necessarily matter any more/less now just because you've been here awhile. You play here at the will and behest of the folks running things. Simple as that. If they wanted to pull the plug on the server in the next 5 minutes, they could, and there's nothing you could do to stop it.
Sure...it's nice if they want to take your opinions, or opinions of official faction players, into account before they make major changes, but they are NOT required to do so.
So, please stop your entitlement attitude, and instead maybe start showing a little more thankfulness that you even get to play here at all, and for FREE. It's part of the problem.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Echo 7-7 - 02-26-2014
(02-26-2014, 03:10 PM)david.starr Wrote:(02-26-2014, 08:04 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: This is why no one takes Zoners seriously.
... says the guy that invented a mini-house out of nowhere cuz skype friends and exploiting activity holes.
Ad hominem plus conspiracy accusations? Charming.
Seriously though, don't do that. It's not very constructive. It's only appropriate to judge an individual in this circumstance on the merit of their argument.
(02-26-2014, 03:08 PM)Achille Wrote: ... Dev's are doing their damnedest to nerf of any noticeable docking facilities, save Liviada...
You must have missed the memo; Guard systems are invisible to lore. Omicron-74 is no longer a Guard system, so that means it must be moderated to be in line with sensible system design.
(02-26-2014, 03:08 PM)Achille Wrote: ...
Oh, finally; how are you possibly going to Rp the instantaneous re-rolling of so many darn ships? Please answer that, somebody, and if you can do so effectively I won't argue with it.
What many people fail to realise is that the essence of what the ships are, in lore, is not changing. Here is an excerpt from a conversation on the matter;
[12:37:47 AM] (Echo 7-7): Gytrash had an example he used.
[12:38:27 AM] (Echo 7-7): "OSI's history is built up on contracts to supply battleships." (paraphrasing slightly)
[12:39:41 AM] (Echo 7-7): This is a misrepresentation. OSI's history is built up on supplying a particular ship, which we label the Nephilim.
[12:39:58 AM] (Echo 7-7): The Nephilim, not actually being a battleship, is a colony ship.
[12:40:28 AM] (Echo 7-7): So, in other words, OSI's history is built on contracts to supply a certain colony ship.
[12:41:36 AM] (Echo 7-7): How that colony ships is presented by game mechanics is irrelevant to the action of being contracted to supply that particular ship.
[12:41:08 AM] <A certain Zoner>: And the colony ships have been RPd as "well defended"
[12:42:04 AM] (Echo 7-7): "Well defended" can be portrayed by different paths of game mechanics.
[12:42:25 AM] (Echo 7-7): In this case, the Devs have chosen an alternate game mechanic to portray this colony ship.
[12:42:38 AM] (Echo 7-7): Therefore, the history of OSI hasn't actually changed.
[12:43:37 AM] (Echo 7-7): This principle applies to all the changed ships.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Enkidu - 02-26-2014
(02-26-2014, 03:25 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Achille: something you and others may be forgetting is that this isn't a town hall meeting, nor is this a democracy.
The Admins/Devs don't really OWE it to you to give you a vote...or make your vote have any consequence whatsoever.
Your opinion, right or wrong as you think it may be, didn't matter before you joined this server, and it doesn't necessarily matter any more/less now just because you've been here awhile. You play here at the will and behest of the folks running things. Simple as that. If they wanted to pull the plug on the server in the next 5 minutes, they could, and there's nothing you could do to stop it.
Sure...it's nice if they want to take your opinions, or opinions of official faction players, into account before they make major changes, but they are NOT required to do so.
So, please stop your entitlement attitude, and instead maybe start showing a little more thankfulness that you even get to play here at all, and for FREE. It's part of the problem.
All countries with nuclear weapons could immediately screw the human race, if they so chose.
Your government just sent the country into a fiscal abyss. Should you revere them for providing basic services?
Apologies if that's slightly blunt, but accusations that I am somehow thankless is incorrect. All I wish to do is maintain current progress and avoid regression and multiple years of physical roleplay and human man hours being sent down the proverbial.
It's a irksome think that intonation cannot be aptly conveyed through a keyboard.
Echo Wrote:You must have missed the memo; Guard systems are invisible to lore. Omicron-74 is no longer a Guard system, so that means it must be moderated to be in line with sensible system design.
Consider the Roleplay significance of a system over an unquantifiable "sensible" value which the Dev's have not showcased. What is your bench mark here?
Again, roleplay lineage takes a backburner over dubious improvement. If the Rp of a particular installation is considered antithetical, then why was it implemented in the first place?
You re-write game history and you will negate somebody's roleplay brainchild. However, I get the impression that neither of us will be able to convince the other.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Doria - 02-26-2014
(02-26-2014, 03:28 PM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(02-26-2014, 03:10 PM)david.starr Wrote:(02-26-2014, 08:04 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: This is why no one takes Zoners seriously.
... says the guy that invented a mini-house out of nowhere cuz skype friends and exploiting activity holes.
Ad hominem plus conspiracy accusations? Charming.
Seriously though, don't do that. It's not very constructive. It's only appropriate to judge an individual in this circumstance on the merit of their argument.
I agree... But a moderator doing that is much worse, don't you think? That's the only reason to my post. Is making fun of the zoner players a correct conduct for a member of the dev/mod/admins team?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Enkidu - 02-26-2014
Echo Wrote:What many people fail to realise is that the essence of what the ships are, in lore, is not changing. Here is an excerpt from a conversation on the matter;
[12:37:47 AM] (Echo 7-7): Gytrash had an example he used.
[12:38:27 AM] (Echo 7-7): "OSI's history is built up on contracts to supply battleships." (paraphrasing slightly)
[12:39:41 AM] (Echo 7-7): This is a misrepresentation. OSI's history is built up on supplying a particular ship, which we label the Nephilim.
[12:39:58 AM] (Echo 7-7): The Nephilim, not actually being a battleship, is a colony ship.
[12:40:28 AM] (Echo 7-7): So, in other words, OSI's history is built on contracts to supply a certain colony ship.
[12:41:36 AM] (Echo 7-7): How that colony ships is presented by game mechanics is irrelevant to the action of being contracted to supply that particular ship.
[12:41:08 AM] <A certain Zoner>: And the colony ships have been RPd as "well defended"
[12:42:04 AM] (Echo 7-7): "Well defended" can be portrayed by different paths of game mechanics.
[12:42:25 AM] (Echo 7-7): In this case, the Devs have chosen an alternate game mechanic to portray this colony ship.
[12:42:38 AM] (Echo 7-7): Therefore, the history of OSI hasn't actually changed.
[12:43:37 AM] (Echo 7-7): This principle applies to all the changed ships.
The real issue (again, for me, a personal predicament), turns around the shape of the models. If their size is comparable to that of their precursors, then the people who use such vessels are going to have issues with projectile ranges and blindspots.
I'm also concerned about the lack of clarity concerning statistical data; none has been given, it's all up in the air.
The new models bear an air of marked aggression - jagged, cosmetically violent angles and a certain Libertonian utilitarianism. How will this integrate with the smooth curves of the Whale and Osprey Mrk2?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Jinx - 02-26-2014
you have to get down to what you are REALLY concerned about
the lore that might be messed up - which was made up by the factions? ( like can doc holiday still RP med one, or can osi still RP the contruction of the nephilim class? ) - or are you in fact more concerned about the stats.
if its the stats - then you can cease your rants - and simply wait, cause as was written in the OP - there are no stats yet - only suggestions. so you may see them soon enough - if it is decided that going for transparency was indeed a good idea opposed to simply give you the results when its done.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Echo 7-7 - 02-26-2014
(02-26-2014, 03:51 PM)Achille Wrote:Echo Wrote:What many people fail to realise is that the essence of what the ships are, in lore, is not changing. Here is an excerpt from a conversation on the matter;
[12:37:47 AM] (Echo 7-7): Gytrash had an example he used.
[12:38:27 AM] (Echo 7-7): "OSI's history is built up on contracts to supply battleships." (paraphrasing slightly)
[12:39:41 AM] (Echo 7-7): This is a misrepresentation. OSI's history is built up on supplying a particular ship, which we label the Nephilim.
[12:39:58 AM] (Echo 7-7): The Nephilim, not actually being a battleship, is a colony ship.
[12:40:28 AM] (Echo 7-7): So, in other words, OSI's history is built on contracts to supply a certain colony ship.
[12:41:36 AM] (Echo 7-7): How that colony ships is presented by game mechanics is irrelevant to the action of being contracted to supply that particular ship.
[12:41:08 AM] <A certain Zoner>: And the colony ships have been RPd as "well defended"
[12:42:04 AM] (Echo 7-7): "Well defended" can be portrayed by different paths of game mechanics.
[12:42:25 AM] (Echo 7-7): In this case, the Devs have chosen an alternate game mechanic to portray this colony ship.
[12:42:38 AM] (Echo 7-7): Therefore, the history of OSI hasn't actually changed.
[12:43:37 AM] (Echo 7-7): This principle applies to all the changed ships.
The real issue (again, for me, a personal predicament), turns around the shape of the models. If their size is comparable to that of their precursors, then the people who use such vessels are going to have issues with projectile ranges and blindspots.
I'm also concerned about the lack of clarity concerning statistical data; none has been given, it's all up in the air.
The new models bear an air of marked aggression - jagged, cosmetically violent angles and a certain Libertonian utilitarianism. How will this integrate with the smooth curves of the Whale and Osprey Mrk2?
Well, PvP balancing is mostly irrelevant to the lore of the ships; I assumed your inquiry was of that nature. As with any time a ship is updated to a new model, hardpoints may or may not change, and players will be forced to acclimatise to the new model(s). That's just how it's always been.
Ships stats will probably be released once the models are 100% complete and they've been balanced.
Because of the existing disparity in the Zoner line, I don't think there needs to be any justification for a change in style, whether perceived or actual. In other words, the diversity of Zoner peoples would lead to diversity of design.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Highland Laddie - 02-26-2014
Quote:Your government just sent the country into a fiscal abyss. Should you revere them for providing basic services?
Irrelevant to the discussion, unless you just wanted to take another easy jab at 'Merica. This is a game, and you have the choice of playing here. That doesn't mean you get to say how or why things happen unless those running the show say you do.
Quote:It's a irksome think that intonation cannot be aptly conveyed through a keyboard.
True enough. A lot of context is lost over written text. But I have tried not to make any of this discussion personal, so I'm trying to look past that otherwise and take the arguments for what they're worth.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Zen_Mechanics - 02-26-2014
Did you just put a dogma in there and said that the nephilim is a colony ship ? Im sorry but just because you change a ships description every version and just because it has a "colony-ship" stigma doesnt make it a colony-ship. And I have plenty of evidence to slash your dogma, not least - the tens of rps that are being done on it. You on the one hand attempt to make sense of things about zoners, but you have carefully airbrushed my arguement in a different thread - when I have continued to say that liberty should be nerfed, but ofcourse you wouldn't do that, because sense is sense only when you want it to be.
Im sure that there are other factions you can pick and harras.