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+----- Thread: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread (/showthread.php?tid=9130)
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - bloogaL - 02-03-2014
(02-03-2014, 09:25 PM)LordVipex Wrote: BloogaL, quite contrary to what you seem to think we're having a lot of enjoyable encounters.
If you want to improve the situation, you should offer constructive criticism. What has been said will be taken into account and is discussed internally, but if you just come into this thread to start a bash train instead of being constructive, your effort is wasted.
There was already plenty of constructive criticism given before I posted, and you responded with a long winded version of "stop cry, space is dangerous ^_^". You clearly have no regrets about the situation that unfolded still, despite it clearly being a clearly poor interaction, and it was no one's fault but the military's side.
The [RM] has been growing in to a "avoid losing at all costs" faction for a long time now. But at least under vrabcek he knew to keep the caps out of snub brawls. If you want to keep the game fun for everyone, try actually considering more than just your own enjoyment. If you want people to interact with you, driving them away with acts like this is counterproductive.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Doria - 02-03-2014
Watch out, bloogaL. Next thing RM will issue you a 25 billion credits fine for being right!
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Moberg - 02-03-2014
(02-03-2014, 09:40 PM)bloogaL Wrote: There was already plenty of constructive criticism given before I posted, and you responded with a long winded version of "stop cry, space is dangerous ^_^". You clearly have no regrets about the situation that unfolded still, despite it clearly being a clearly poor interaction, and it was no one's fault but the military's side.
The [RM] has been growing in to a "avoid losing at all costs" faction for a long time now. But at least under vrabcek he knew to keep the caps out of snub brawls. If you want to keep the game fun for everyone, try actually considering more than just your own enjoyment. If you want people to interact with you, driving them away with acts like this is counterproductive.
Yes, there was. Doesn't mean you are obliged to completely disregard the point of this thread because of it.
I'm sure the situation had room for improvements, I don't doubt that. Both parties could've had better execution. Since this is thread is primarly about [RM] here though, I think that some restraints would have been nice indeed. However, and I think you can agree on that when commanding countless numbers of indies and officials who are all waiting for their blue once the battle started, you may lose oversight over everything happening or some players don't focus on the chat for a while and miss the orders. Something I have pointed out before.
When we setup our mini events or patrols, we're mostly thinking about the enjoyment of our members and our factions indies. We have ways to make it enjoyable to everybody else, just because it doesn't work once every month does not mean we are a bad faction that doesn't take others into account. We're usually having random ideas to make it more interesting for others, and most of the time do take fair play into account.
However, as pointed out earlier, this was a rather special occasion. There was some wrong information on our side, and the officer in command had to make a decision - a quick one too. One thing led to another, and something happened leading to the dissatisfaction of one side. This can happen, after all we all do mistakes, and we tend to keep those moments to a minimum.
Just yesterday, when the nomads decided to get into Frankfurt, they've been blown to hell even though the officer in command told the independent players not to fire and the nomads still thought it was an enjoyable and thrilling encounter. Losses and mistakes happen, but you can also try to make the best out of it. Enjoy what you had before the gank happened, we're looking to reduce the amount of it as much as it is possible.
Things happened, things went out of control, we appreciate the feedback and see what to make out of it.
I've obviously been appearing rather rude and aggressive about this subject, which might give the wrong image. It's not that I don't give a damn, it's that I feel that some things had to be cleared we were accused to do. I didn't sound diplomatic then for sure, I was trying to get my point clear. Apologies in that regard.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Pancakes - 02-04-2014
Please, Vipex, the attitude that Dan is mentioning is EXACTLY why I stopped playing as RM.
Seriously, I got fed up with high ranks ordering me to gank people all the time to a point I simply refused to fly with anyone but myself.
And then I realized that most of my enemies rather dodge me than interact with me. The fun of flying through countless of systems doing nothing but chatting with the odd power trader, or getting ganked by a group of hessians when they can muster it.
How the hell can you find THAT enjoyable? How?! It gets to a boiling point when you have NOTHING to do because players would rather avoid you than meet you on space. Heck, I recall 2 years ago showing up with my Hessian and having FUN fighting/chatting with [RM].
I decided to keep it all to myself, in order to avoid the arguing inside the faction, but this seriously gets out of hand. Either get a hold of yourselves, or eventually you'll find out that even your dire enemies would rather interact with someone else and you'll be left all alone.
P.S - Sorry if it came out so harsh, but it's the way I felt it when I was in RM (note that I haven't fought against RM since I've left). Both as [RM] pilot and as an indie Hessian fighting against RM.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Moberg - 02-04-2014
(02-04-2014, 04:02 PM)Pancakes Wrote: P.S - Sorry if it came out so harsh, but it's the way I felt it when I was in RM (note that I haven't fought against RM since I've left). Both as [RM] pilot and as an indie Hessian fighting against RM.
I am sorry, but you were about to get kicked because you didn't even have the 10-hour flight time period after your two months Flieger trial period. I'd argue that you pretty much missed 99% of the good action. During these two months, I think I saw your ship once. Of course RL can get in the way, but you barely had any presence and barely had opportunities to experience the life as [RM].
Don't get me wrong, I understand your post, and I appreciate your input. If you could tell me who commanded you to gank I could talk to that officer. Remember though that 'fair fights' does not always mean equal numbers. 10 recruits versus 10 aces is obviously far from a fair fight. I, among others, usually try to take other factors into account too.
Quote:And then I realized that most of my enemies rather dodge me than interact with me. The fun of flying through countless of systems doing nothing but chatting with the odd power trader, or getting ganked by a group of hessians when they can muster it.
There are some days where nothing is happening. And on other days there is so much happening you can not be everywhere. Such days can happen, there are not always things to keep you busy.
Quote:Seriously, I got fed up with high ranks ordering me to gank people all the time to a point I simply refused to fly with anyone but myself.
I offer everyone in the faction that has suggestions or something to complain to talk with me. You didn't take this chance, and preferred to keep silent when you were still in the faction. When you don't tell me what's wrong, I can't improve the things that bug you.
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About ganking. I understand that it is considered as bad move by many people. However, something that I think is mentionworthy that makes us different is that we don't let anyone ruin our fun through ganking. I remember one time where I flew an LWB indie and see a [RM] recruit (to be fair, he is a very good fighter pilot) and an indie cruiser getting ganked by 5-7 hessians. Did the militaries QQ in the end? No, they kicked the hessians out with their guns.
I mean, I get it, ganks are bad, and I'll tell everyone to keep fights fairer (especially regarding cap involvement), but you could also just accept it and go somewhere else, kick their butts out of the system or whatever else. It should in no way ruin your experience, and neither does it for many of us.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Ryummel - 02-04-2014
Basically the excuse for the gank this time isn't "RHA has too many pvp aces" but "we thought you had four or five battleships" instead, right?
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Kazinsal - 02-04-2014
(02-04-2014, 04:44 PM)LordVipex Wrote: I mean, I get it, ganks are bad, and I'll tell everyone to keep fights fairer (especially regarding cap involvement), but you could also just accept it and go somewhere else, kick their butts out of the system or whatever else. It should in no way ruin your experience, and neither does it for many of us.
This is why Rheinland is dead.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Moberg - 02-04-2014
(02-04-2014, 11:18 PM)Kazinsal Wrote: This is why Rheinland is dead.
Is it?
Maybe you should come and visit more often, to get another point of view and see that it isn't. I suppose it depends on how you look at a region when you decide if it is dead or not.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Pancakes - 02-05-2014
A) Yes, only that those 2 months weren't the only time I was in RM, and I've had around 7 hours of flight in them, 7 hours that completely dis-encouraged me to have any more. Anyway I like to fly as a recruit-level ship, you can even see it in the fact that as part of [KNF], while being high ranked I practically fly most of the time a recruit RP'ed ship, the problem laid with the flight reports if anything.
B) I hardly remember the names, but seeing that orders such as these were quite common, I figured it would be best to just make my leave. No need to make a huge fuzz about it.
RE: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - bloogaL - 02-05-2014
(02-03-2014, 10:29 PM)LordVipex Wrote: However, as pointed out earlier, this was a rather special occasion.
The thing is though that it wasn't. Amit's given evidence of that from the [RM] side, and from the unlawful perspective: I can't remember a single time in the last several months where I'd log my RHA and -not- be ganked by Rheinland lawfuls, including [RM] officials. There's a clear faction wide attitude that it's fine to gank, and that you should do anything in your power to avoid losing. Including just running to a base if you realise the enemy has the upper hand. I've witnessed it first hand several times and had other RHA members come back and complain about it in the chat after they've gone and run in to you guys. You can deny it all you like, but it's pretty clear that this is either something you've failed to control, or just don't care about, possibly even condone.
(02-04-2014, 11:28 PM)LordVipex Wrote: Is it?
[RM 2.22:05:51
VWA 2.21:35:54
RFP 1.14:24:41
[RHA] 17:19:12
Looks pretty dead to me.