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+--- Thread: Smugglers and Mooring Rings (/showthread.php?tid=12058)
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - dr lameos - 09-14-2008
I'm a smuggler who is for this but:
Stations don't have specific separated mooring points as far as I know, and you cannot fire on the base
So this only limits mooring on planets, which is where all the money is
I'd like to see more smugglers, this limits them
If you're interested in joining the Smugglers Guild, PM me (this is not an advert :rolleyes:)
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - Baltar - 09-14-2008
I agree Coriko ... this would limit smugglers.
I too support this idea for being able to disable rings and moors. It'll make it easier to keep a trader from escaping a pirate just as well as keeping a smuggler from getting away from the authorities.
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - waddoff - 09-15-2008
Ah, so we're playing the nit-picking game are we Baltar?
"No ... its about attacking the role play of smugglers. Dude ... you cannot expect people to be silent while you slander them. And don't complain because YOU don't have enough resources to cover the job. You wanna catch a smuggler (which is a cat and mouse game by the way) you've gotta outsmart them. Changing the game mechanism in your favor is not going to solve anything. All its gonna do is allow you to capture EVERY smuggler and your LPI team will cease the search away from Manhattan. Instead we'll see every LPI available hover above Manhattan ... one will kill the lane and the rest will decimate the smuggler. Oh boy ... more fun. Say goodbye to the smuggling role play since Bounty Hunters in battle cruisers like to hang out near unlawful bases farming unlawful NPCs and hitting human players. Yeah ... they'll kill the docking ports for the unlawful bases and do the same to the smuggler there. No more smuggling ... LPI can pat themselves on the back for being SO successful ... and all the happy lawfuls can enjoy the game while everybody else scratches their heads saying WHAT?"
I ain't slandering all smugglers. I admit I may have been a little broad by just using the word smuggler with no prefix or suffix. If you're an RP smuggler, good on you, so am I. But there's more to smuggling RP than just getting your payday.
Bounty Hunters, to my understanding, have no right to open fire on smugglers within Liberty, unless given orders by the LN. So that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
"No ... its targeting smugglers. And if you're gonna badmouth my role play ... expect the same in reverse. You wanna drop it ... make a retraction."
You are obviously a smuggler who plays his role. Therefore, I have not slandered you. I apologise if you took it wrong, but this is targeted at smugglers who aren't roleplaying, just power trading.
"Um ... what do you want? You want the smuggler to come out and announce, "Hey LPI ... I just entered the Colorado jump hole with 3400 units of Cardamine ... I'll be arriving at Manhattan's docking ring from the underside in approximately 2 minutes ... boy ... I hope you guys don't catch me." Then we start to hear donuts hitting the floor and belly's sloshing about as the LPI start up their engines for the intercept. Yeah ... good role play ... lets do that."
No, but I expect some sort of a reaction when I say "Halt! xxxx." That's the moment the donuts hit the floor. But incase you haven't noticed, the LPI uses Liberators, and it is very hard to kill a smuggler in the 30 seconds it takes for them to get to the mooring fixture and dock.
No, what smugglers should do when sprung is turn around their ship and head for the closest unlawful base to take refuge, with added RP of course.
"Smugglers are not hostile to Manhattan ... no more hostile than the Trader ID is hostile to Crete or Malta. The ONLY time Manhattan ever went hostile to anyone smuggling was when the NPC did their role play declaration, "Freelancer xxx, you don't mind if I look in your hold for contraband, do you?" ... then there's this 10-20 second pause ... then you hear, "Just as I suspected, drop that cargo at once or we'll open fire." ... then there's another 10-20 second pause and a dialogue box requesting you to either accept or decline. Only then ... after the smuggler declines ... or the time expires ... then and ONLY then will the docking ring go red. That's a full 1 minute at least ... plenty of time to dock and ignore the authorities. Then its the planet's authorities to do something."
You have actually just proven my point. The only difference between a player scan and an NPC scan is that it is not built into the game engine that a base becomes hostile to you once sprung for contraband by a player. It is the same thing as if you were fighting a bunch of players outside their base, were loosing so you docked with their base, as opposed to fighting a bunch of npcs outside their base, and loosing, but you can't dock, you have to run.
"So ... unless the LPI is planning on taking the full 1 minute or so to role play between the time the smuggler gets into scan range and he refuses ... don't lecture us. Just admit that you want the easy way out. You've already got the battleships, dreadnoughts, juggernauts cruisers, destroyers, gunboats, bombers and fighters at your disposal ... what do you need this for?"
I would be glad to take that 1 minute to RP, or longer, if the smugglers allowed it, but they simply don't. The oorp smugglers are only interested in their powertrading, not their rp. We need this TO be able to rp
"Carrying contraband does not make you a smuggler. Carrying contraband and AVOIDING the authorities makes you a smuggler. The whole idea is to avoid being caught. I rarely ever bring my stuff to Manhattan ... BUT ... what about the Manhattan black market? That is part of role play. Why do you suppose Manhattan pays the most for Cardamine and Artifacts? And why do you think its one of the best places to purchase Counterfeit Software. With your proposal ... you can say goodbye to the black market role play. The same rules apply to you that apply to pirates ... if the trader (or in this case the smuggler) docks before you catch him ... to bad ... your loss."
Carrying contraband makes you a smuggler. Getting caught makes you unresourceful. Remember, it is possible, once again I say I have made hundreds of millions of credits smuggling Cardamine past LPI and LN, and never been caught. This post doesn't concern carrying Couterfeit software either, cause it is still very easy to escape with that for smuggling, but that's not an issue like this.
"Bases and planets are not hostile to traders and smugglers until they are caught and you run through the whole demand process. Here's something to consider:
1. Smuggler arrives and you declare your scan
2. Saying "halt" and the smuggler refusing does not give you the authority to destroy him ... in fact ... you have no reason to halt me until AFTER you scan me
3. After you scan me ... you gotta tell announce what you found and demand I drop it
4. You need to give me a few seconds to make up my mind as to whether to drop it or not.
5. If I say no ... fine ... shoot away ... if I ignore you for too long ... fire away
6. If I make it to the docking ring before you can get the scan, make the declaration, wait for my response and then start shooting ... your loss not mine
7. Don't call me OORP because you cannot catch me before I dock
8. If this whole dock disruption thing goes through ... cool ... makes it more challenging ... BUT ... with a dock disruption available ... you can't just park above the ring (that's crap role play and you know it)
9. Quit calling us OORP because you can't do your job ... a smuggler is SUPPOSED to avoid you and is SUPPOSED to ignore you and is SUPPOSED to run silent and dock as quick as possible"
That may be what you do, but let me list what actually happens.
1. Smuggler arrives, like all traders I scan him for contraband.
2. I immediately take a screencap, then type xxxx, halt!
3. Smuggler is already too close to the mooring fixture to fire at him
4. Smuggler docks
5. I read the smuggler the laws about smuggling and demand he pay the fine
6. Smuggler logs out
7. I'm calling you oorp because you dock after being caught.
8. A smuggler is SUPPOSED to avoid you, I agree, smugglers that get by undetected get my kudos. Smugglers that aren't crafty and resourceful enough to get by undetected and just go stampeeding into Manhatten becacause they know they can't be stopped are the problem here. Smugglers are SUPPOSED to be silent and undetected, and dock as quickly as possible. But once being sprung, docking should no longer become available as an option. Smugglers are SUPPOSED to flee or comply once being called out for carrying contraband.
Once again, like I said in the first post, every smuggler and his dog is gonna jump on this and whine about it. But lets not listen to them, they're just too afraid for a little challenge in the presently easy task.
Things could be done to balance it out, like making the payout of smuggled goods on planets higher, the Outcasts and Corsairs would have to respond to this new technology by offering a greater profit for smugglers, or no one would ship their goods.
If you started making 16mil for a Firefly filled with Cardamine instead of 9, would you still do it?
This is just a suggestion, so how about some constructive critisism instead of trying to crap all over it. At present it is too easy for smugglers, and no matter how much we say we're gonna crack down on smugglers, it simply isn't possible due to rule constrictions. Don't think for a second I'm just biased because I'm a LPI, because I'm also a successful smuggler. I've seen the other side, I know what its like. So tell me Baltar, do you have a Liberty Lawful character? Have you tried stopping any smugglers recently? If not, them who are you to comment on how the LPI operates?
Knock the mooring ring idea all you want, but leave the LPI/LN out of it.
Its good to see you support the idea regardless though...
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - dr lameos - 09-15-2008
I still think its a good idea.
If the authorities catch you for smuggling they should be able to disable you from mooring.
Smuggling isn't entirely about the profits, if you care so much about cash go trade diamonds
I don't smuggle to Manhatten often, thats a bit risky with all the people camping outside - not really what an experienced smuggler would do.
"Once again, like I said in the first post, every smuggler and his dog is gonna jump on this and whine about it. But lets not listen to them, they're just too afraid for a little challenge in the presently easy task."
Actually I agree with all you've said, there are too many smugglers in Freelancer just powersmuggling
If you want help, advice, or to smuggle as a team, PM me
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - jpo - 09-15-2008
' Wrote:Ah, so we're playing the nit-picking game are we Baltar?...
And if you would have put that energy into roleplaying your character instead of telling people how to do theirs we would all be better off.
Check the many role play suggestion threads we already have if you want better role play. Put some in your sig and ask shoddy roleplayers to read them.
However, you claimed you aren't slandering all smugglers, which means the mechanics of the game dont need fixed, the non rping smugglers do.
I will give you that. I will sign it and I will sit at the meeting in city hall to approve it. However what I wont do is endorse a game change to force feed rp.
Why? this shouldnt be a trial by forums smugglers vs liberty law thread, but it turns into it real quick. It does so becasue a lot of law dogs dont RP, just as many smugglers dont. Thats on them, not the game mechanics. If you dont believe me, check the sanctions thread. Its ripe with banned and warned law dogs.
RP or dont. Don't ask for a game mechanics change as a substitute for rp, its a waste of valuable resources. Nuff said.
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - Baltar - 09-17-2008
Quote:I ain't slandering all smugglers. I admit I may have been a little broad by just using the word smuggler with no prefix or suffix. If you're an RP smuggler, good on you, so am I. But there's more to smuggling RP than just getting your payday.
Yup ... there is more ... but you need to direct that statement at the Trader ID. Traders ... especially those on the Niobium/Diamond run ... have no sense of role play. I sit in Sigma 13 and try to convince them to take the trade lanes rather than taking the short cut using the jumpholes. They don't listen. They just give me the "hey, its all about the money." So much for role play.
Quote:Bounty Hunters, to my understanding, have no right to open fire on smugglers within Liberty, unless given orders by the LN. So that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
But they do ... and it is.
Quote:You are obviously a smuggler who plays his role. Therefore, I have not slandered you. I apologise if you took it wrong, but this is targeted at smugglers who aren't roleplaying, just power trading.
I don't mind people getting onto specific traders or specific pirates or what-not ... and the good role playing bounty hunters would rather we (including me) refer to specific hunters ... rather than throw everyone into the same bucket.
I suppose the best way to get support for this idea is to bring it up in a "constructive" way rather than push people's buttons. I for one would fully support such an idea. Its good for both lawful and unlawful and its good for challenging those traders and smugglers that blow people off for a quick buck. But it should have been brought up as a positive rather than out of frustration (as I have a habit of doing).
Quote:No, but I expect some sort of a reaction when I say "Halt! xxxx." That's the moment the donuts hit the floor. But incase you haven't noticed, the LPI uses Liberators, and it is very hard to kill a smuggler in the 30 seconds it takes for them to get to the mooring fixture and dock.
No, what smugglers should do when sprung is turn around their ship and head for the closest unlawful base to take refuge, with added RP of course.
My point was "don't call a smuggler OORP simply because you can't catch him before he docks." The idea for being able to stop him before he can dock is a "capability" you can gain. We can all think of the nit-noid things we consider OORP ... but they're not all OORP because they annoy us. I've learned this a bit over time. There are many things I really REALLY get annoyed by ... like bounty hunters hanging out next to Junker bases. I wouldn't mind hunters hangin about Junker bases if LPI didn't mind my Rogue GB hangin around Manhattan. It gets a bit "annoying" to see lawfuls get away with stuff that unlawfuls cannot get away with. Makes you just wanna throw your hands up and say "what the?"
Quote:You have actually just proven my point. The only difference between a player scan and an NPC scan is that it is not built into the game engine that a base becomes hostile to you once sprung for contraband by a player. It is the same thing as if you were fighting a bunch of players outside their base, were loosing so you docked with their base, as opposed to fighting a bunch of npcs outside their base, and loosing, but you can't dock, you have to run.
Again ... just because you cannot stop them ... don't call them OORP. I do not call Traders who dock on Naha OORP ... even when they have Rheinland IFFs. Quite interesting seeing that actually. Keep in mind Rheinland and GMG are not best of friends. There was an 80 year war between the two if you recall. Results of that 80 year war is the debris fields in Sigma 13. The debris field is what we Junkers thrive on ... and this is where these traders continuously trespass. But no ... I'll avoid calling them OORP. Instead ... I'll just send my pirate after them.
Quote:I would be glad to take that 1 minute to RP, or longer, if the smugglers allowed it, but they simply don't. The oorp smugglers are only interested in their powertrading, not their rp. We need this TO be able to rp
I wish we could get rid of the quick dock feature ... you know ... where you wait till you're almost touching the moor before hittin F3. Wish you had to go through the whole dock sequence ... now THAT would be role play. Traders do the quick dock to us pirates too.
Quote:Carrying contraband makes you a smuggler. Getting caught makes you unresourceful. Remember, it is possible, once again I say I have made hundreds of millions of credits smuggling Cardamine past LPI and LN, and never been caught. This post doesn't concern carrying Couterfeit software either, cause it is still very easy to escape with that for smuggling, but that's not an issue like this.
Carrying contraband in the open for good guys to catch you is NOT smuggling. Read the definition. Smuggling is done "stealthily" and avoid authorities. The whole point is NOT to get caught. And it really doesn't matter what you carry ... in Kusari, Engine Components are contraband. In Sigma 13, I treat Prisoners and Military Vehicles and such as contraband. Prisoners are to unlawfuls what Slaves are to lawfuls.
I even got in an argument with this Zoner trader who was carrying Prisoners. I normally do not pirate Zoners ... but this one I took exception to. He claimed they were terrorists who were causing trouble on Gran Canaria. I told him all prisoners were contraband in Sigma 13. SO ... HIS role play was he was getting rid of terrorists and I should understand ... MY role play was that he was carrying contraband ... friends and family of unlawfuls. So who is right? Who was OORP? Well ... he kept telling me I was OORP for attacking him for carrying terrorist prisoners. Kinda makes you wanna scream doesn't it?
Another instance ... me in a Rogue GB moving Water from Montezuma to Alcatraz and Pharmaceuticals back. I was in a Rogue GB with a Rogue ID and Rogue IFF ... amazingly ... two or three LSF let me do my thing. Unfortunately ... some guy in a Liberty Battle Cruiser saw an opportunity to harass me. So ... no role play existed beyond the most basic ... "me Liberty Navy ... you Rogue ... you die." ... simply amazing.
Quote:1. Smuggler arrives, like all traders I scan him for contraband.
2. I immediately take a screencap, then type xxxx, halt!
3. Smuggler is already too close to the mooring fixture to fire at him
4. Smuggler docks
5. I read the smuggler the laws about smuggling and demand he pay the fine
6. Smuggler logs out
7. I'm calling you oorp because you dock after being caught.
So when a Trader does this to me? I mean ... Traders docking on Yanagi to avoid piracy? Traders docking on Kyoto to avoid piracy? Tell ya what ... when you can solve my problem ... we'll both be happy.
Just accept that he got away ... I have to. If you ask me ... the whole docking ring thing is a joke. Docking rings and moors are a game mechanism to allow you to dock on a planet. In "reality" a ship would not dock on a ring or moor to access the planet. In "reality" a smuggler would enter the atmosphere in an area of the planet less likely to be heavily populated by the law. They'd enter orbit and then proceed into the admosphere ... then they'd find a safe place to land (not in the middle of a populated city full of cops). Just look at it as they got to the planet and entered atmo ... now its the planetary cops turn to catch em.
Quote:Once again, like I said in the first post, every smuggler and his dog is gonna jump on this and whine about it. But lets not listen to them, they're just too afraid for a little challenge in the presently easy task.
Once again ... I like the idea of disabling the ring and moor. Not arguing this point. I am simply disagreeing with you on what you call OORP. Drop the OORP crap and we'll get along. Calling someone a whiner because they disagree with you is childish. Just accept the fact that not everyone will agree with you. Continue to call people whiners and OORPers is not constructive ... in fact ... you're pretty much asking for flames.
Quote:Things could be done to balance it out, like making the payout of smuggled goods on planets higher, the Outcasts and Corsairs would have to respond to this new technology by offering a greater profit for smugglers, or no one would ship their goods.
1. True ... but then you still have to deal with those LPI who will end up disabling the rings and moors at the first sight of a transport or freighter. We'll end up being stopped for nothing "while" you scan rather than "because" of your scan. We'll show up at Manhattan ... ring and moor disabled immediately ... "trader come close for scan" ... clean ... "carry on" ... not clean ... guns in full glory.
2. You'll also have to deal with the overzealous LPI who will stop a transport with 3499 units of Food and 1 unit of Cardamine ... "drop that Cardamine or die."
It will happen ... in fact ... #2 happens now.
Quote:If you started making 16mil for a Firefly filled with Cardamine instead of 9, would you still do it?
I make over 1 mil per minute on my runs. Average run is 20 min for some 23-25 mil. And guess what ... I don't take my stuff to Manhattan.
Quote:This is just a suggestion, so how about some constructive critisism instead of trying to crap all over it. At present it is too easy for smugglers, and no matter how much we say we're gonna crack down on smugglers, it simply isn't possible due to rule constrictions. Don't think for a second I'm just biased because I'm a LPI, because I'm also a successful smuggler. I've seen the other side, I know what its like. So tell me Baltar, do you have a Liberty Lawful character? Have you tried stopping any smugglers recently? If not, them who are you to comment on how the LPI operates?
I FLIPPING AGREE WITH YOU ON THE SUGGESTION. HOW MANY TIMES DO I GOTTA SAY THAT?
My "problem" is with you calling a smuggler OORP because you can't catch him. And you're gonna have to deal with your own role play once this suggestion is implemented. Because like it or not ... it will get abused.
Quote:Knock the mooring ring idea all you want, but leave the LPI/LN out of it.
Its good to see you support the idea regardless though...
*SIGH* Sir ... who started knocking who? Badmouthing smugglers and I'm supposed to be ok about that. LPI and LN were examples. I coulda picked on any lawful group. But now that you realize how upsetting it is when you're lumped into a stereotype ... please drop the Smuggler rant.
EDIT: If you can find my syntax problem ... kindly point it out to me so I can get the quotes going correctly.
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - waddoff - 09-17-2008
I couldn't figure it out either, my quotes didn't work when I tried in my last post.
I'll avoid replying to most of your post though, or we're just gonna end up going in circles. We've both got our points across already, except for the Bounty Hunters thing.
If they're hanging outside the Junkers Base, just get some rogues to take them out. Unlawfuls are always orbiting Manhatten when there are no lawfuls around. They ain't gonna move no matter how much you tell them, you gotta kick them outta there with force. Or wait for them to get bored, either way works.
But that's irrelivant to this topic.
Also, I'd like to be able to have it possible to stop traders from docking with unlawful bases to escape, but disabling a base just isn't fesable with the current game engine. Same with Jump gates.
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - JakeSG - 09-17-2008
Alternatively the Liberty Lawfuls could just camp every single JH and JG into the systems. Oh wait, that'd take 30, 40, 50+ pilots in bombers. /sarcasm -.-
I know your pain, my poor little avenger does nothing. Even with a cap ship in position most of the time they can dock without you having even the smallest chance of stopping them. In fact, about all you can do at this point is ram them and hope you somehow manage to knock their freakishly large transport into the planet, or open fire as soon as we have scanned them without giving warning. Which is also OORP and probably sanctionable. You people wonder why the Liberty Forces get such twitchy trigger fingers, our jobs are harder than you'd think.
I'm all for this idea, and not just as a Liberty Lawful. Most smugglers just plain ignore you, then log out if you're caught. Some of them undock and redock at outer stations till you leave. This major unbalance needs to be fixed. Unless the server cap is raised a few hundred and we have a constant several dozen lawfuls online at a time, we stand very little chance of succeeding at our job.
/signed
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - Raekur - 09-17-2008
Maybe we are approaching this from the wrong direction.
If someone performs a criminal act and for whatever reason is not able to be apprehended at that time, what would the lawful organization do?
Create a listing of individuals that are to be apprehended.
Simple layout
1. Pending issuance of a warrant.
Proof of the criminal action has been submitted to the House controlling the area it occured in.
This part is just the "paperwork" side of things that should promote interaction with different groups.
2. Outstanding warrant for arrest.
The criminal is now actively hunted. This is a 1 kill only situation which is to simulate the smugglers capture.
3. Criminal captured.
This can represent a history as to the number of times a smuggler has been caught.
Kinda like a rap sheet.
There should be 4 warrant areas, 1 for each House.
Any Lawful can act on any warrant and after capture the criminal is just waiting extridiction to the House that issued the warrant.
Now this has the possibility to be extended further into some RP event where the smugglers are transported to someplace like Huntsville. During this time unlawfuls could attempt to "free" the smugglers.
Smugglers and Mooring Rings - Erythnul - 09-17-2008
Brilliant concept. Simply yes.
Next, please close down the Omicron Minor - Alaska jump hole. Thank you.