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+--- Thread: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! (/showthread.php?tid=120857)
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Highland Laddie - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:19 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:17 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: A criminal organization that mainly operates within the confines of Kusari and its borders. And it is already well known and established that the Hogosha operate within the blessings set down by the Kusari government. So, for Hogosha to start showing up in Bretonia would mean that they are doing so with Kusari's blessing...which would put diplomatic strain between the Bretonia and Kusari governments to do something about it or risk going back to hostilities.Considering how they haven't had anyone try to deal with them so far, given their criminal status, I'd say such a change would not have damaging inRP consequences for Kusari.
The reverse would happen if you started seeing a bunch of Bretonian Privateers operating within Kusari, which I think no longer have Kusari within their ZOI (I think they've been re-purposed to mainly go after Gallia). They can still try to hit them in the Taus, but should avoid pirating within Kusari's borders.
But that's the thing - they haven't had anyone NEED to deal with them because they haven't really been operating in Bretonia since the Bret-Kusari war has ended. Same way you don't really see Privateers or even Junkers operating and pirating Hogosha in Kusari.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - t0l - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:23 PM)Chuba Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:03 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:00 PM)Chuba Wrote: bad idea -1why is it bad? If you think something is bad, back it up with an argument so that we can have a discussion
well,They are in Liberty already why would they need bretonia ? what purpose helping their "allies" yea no
They're not considered criminals in Liberty, but they still are in Bretonia.
Now that the war is over, I'm sure that the Hogs would be somewhat pissed at their criminal status and/or take advantage of it.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Lythrilux - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:24 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote:It ended quite a while ago. I'd assume that they'd be taken off the list alongside the KNF. Yet they haven't.(09-26-2014, 04:19 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:17 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: A criminal organization that mainly operates within the confines of Kusari and its borders. And it is already well known and established that the Hogosha operate within the blessings set down by the Kusari government. So, for Hogosha to start showing up in Bretonia would mean that they are doing so with Kusari's blessing...which would put diplomatic strain between the Bretonia and Kusari governments to do something about it or risk going back to hostilities.Considering how they haven't had anyone try to deal with them so far, given their criminal status, I'd say such a change would not have damaging inRP consequences for Kusari.
The reverse would happen if you started seeing a bunch of Bretonian Privateers operating within Kusari, which I think no longer have Kusari within their ZOI (I think they've been re-purposed to mainly go after Gallia). They can still try to hit them in the Taus, but should avoid pirating within Kusari's borders.
But that's the thing - they haven't had anyone NEED to deal with them because they haven't really been operating in Bretonia since the Bret-Kusari war has ended.
(09-26-2014, 04:24 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Same way you don't really see Privateers or even Junkers operating and pirating Hogosha in Kusari.Huh? JM pirates all the time in Kusari
And it was sad that the Privateer ID had Kusari removed from it's ZoI.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Highland Laddie - 09-26-2014
Their criminal status existed even before the war, I believe, on account of their allied relationship with the Gaians/Corsairs.
The problem is their quasi-lawful relationship to the Kusari government. Any action they take INSIDE of another House will have significant diplomatic repercussions. It makes more sense for them to engage in such hostile actions in border regions (Taus, Sigmas, Independent systems) than to be in other Houses.
Quote:Huh? JM pirates all the time in Kusari
Not the same. Junkers are an autonomous organization with no real House backing (unlike Hogosha), especially as long as they are seen to be obeying House rules (which is why they can't pirate in other Houses).
Quote:And it was sad that the Privateer ID had Kusari removed from it's ZoI.
Because Privateer ID is more tightly tied to the Bret government (LIKE the Hogosha ID), it would be more difficult for them to operate within a House that Bretonia is no longer as war with. Otherwise, you'd think it would be fine for Privateers to be pirating in Liberty...or Rheinland, or basically ANYWHERE.
In this way, the Hogosha ID is more like an opposite of the Bret Privateer ID, and not really the Junkers. But, I'll tell you what. If you want Hog ID expanded into Bretonia, then also get Privateer ID expanded into all of Kusari (and while we're at it, get Gallic Junker ID into all of Bretonia and Kusari while we're at it), and I'll support it.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - WesternPeregrine - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:27 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:24 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote:It ended quite a while ago. I'd assume that they'd be taken off the list alongside the KNF. Yet they haven't.(09-26-2014, 04:19 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:17 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: A criminal organization that mainly operates within the confines of Kusari and its borders. And it is already well known and established that the Hogosha operate within the blessings set down by the Kusari government. So, for Hogosha to start showing up in Bretonia would mean that they are doing so with Kusari's blessing...which would put diplomatic strain between the Bretonia and Kusari governments to do something about it or risk going back to hostilities.Considering how they haven't had anyone try to deal with them so far, given their criminal status, I'd say such a change would not have damaging inRP consequences for Kusari.
The reverse would happen if you started seeing a bunch of Bretonian Privateers operating within Kusari, which I think no longer have Kusari within their ZOI (I think they've been re-purposed to mainly go after Gallia). They can still try to hit them in the Taus, but should avoid pirating within Kusari's borders.
But that's the thing - they haven't had anyone NEED to deal with them because they haven't really been operating in Bretonia since the Bret-Kusari war has ended.
(09-26-2014, 04:24 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Same way you don't really see Privateers or even Junkers operating and pirating Hogosha in Kusari.Huh? JM pirates all the time in Kusari
And it was sad that the Privateer ID had Kusari removed from it's ZoI.
Indeed, the hogosha status in bretonia has been neglected in comparison to other factions. The other day a privateer tried to cause some ruckus in Honshu and such, and although the previous lore had them operating inside kusari , I had to keep telling the pilot that it would cause "ttrouble " for him to attack stuff there (because of his ccurrent id ).
True, junker hunting notwithstanding, hogosha action abroad is seen as a political action by kusari, and could cause tensions.
Hogosha could be decriminalized, but they would fall right back to that status once a junker denounced a hogosha landing on a gain base, or carrying artifacts and such.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Lythrilux - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:33 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Their criminal status existed even before the war, I believe, on account of their allied relationship with the Gaians.It's not like they're going to discontinue that anytime soon though. If that's what causes the criminal status, then I still don't see why they shouldn't be able to yarr up Bretonia.
(09-26-2014, 04:33 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: But, I'll tell you what. If you want Hog ID expanded into Bretonia, then also get Privateer ID expanded into all of Kusari (and while we're at it, get Gallic Junker ID into all of Bretonia and Kusari while we're at it), and I'll support it.I'd like to see that actually. It'd be pretty cool.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Highland Laddie - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:33 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Their criminal status existed even before the war, I believe, on account of their allied relationship with the Gaians.It's not like they're going to discontinue that anytime soon though. If that's what causes the criminal status, then I still don't see why they shouldn't be able to yarr up Bretonia.
(09-26-2014, 04:33 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: But, I'll tell you what. If you want Hog ID expanded into Bretonia, then also get Privateer ID expanded into all of Kusari (and while we're at it, get Gallic Junker ID into all of Bretonia and Kusari while we're at it), and I'll support it.I'd like to see that actually. It'd be pretty cool.
You caught this part though, right?
Quote:Because Privateer ID is more tightly tied to the Bret government (LIKE the Hogosha ID), it would be more difficult for them to operate within a House that Bretonia is no longer as war with. Otherwise, you'd think it would be fine for Privateers to be pirating in Liberty...or Rheinland, or basically ANYWHERE.
In this way, the Hogosha ID is more like an opposite of the Bret Privateer ID, and not really the Junkers.
Because that was the important part of the explanation.
WPeregrin gets it. Ty!
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Lythrilux - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 04:47 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote:I get it, I'd just like to see it though. It'd be fun, rather than having dead IDs.(09-26-2014, 04:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-26-2014, 04:33 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Their criminal status existed even before the war, I believe, on account of their allied relationship with the Gaians.It's not like they're going to discontinue that anytime soon though. If that's what causes the criminal status, then I still don't see why they shouldn't be able to yarr up Bretonia.
(09-26-2014, 04:33 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: But, I'll tell you what. If you want Hog ID expanded into Bretonia, then also get Privateer ID expanded into all of Kusari (and while we're at it, get Gallic Junker ID into all of Bretonia and Kusari while we're at it), and I'll support it.I'd like to see that actually. It'd be pretty cool.
You caught this part though, right?
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - Highland Laddie - 09-26-2014
Quote:I get it, I'd just like to see it though. It'd be fun, rather than having dead IDs.
The problem isn't necessarily the ID or the ZOI, but also on account of the playerbase. You find us about 100+ active players and I'm sure you'd see more action with these IDs.
Going back to my previous statement: Is Inverness considered Bretonia still in terms of ZOI restriction for Hogosha? Or Cortez? If you wanted something for Hogs to shoot, there's plenty of Junker stuff there.
If you just wanted to shoot Bretonians....my gosh...there are TONS of different IDs to use besides Hogosha, and without the political problems attached to doing so.
RE: Expand Hogosha ZoI into Bretonia! - WesternPeregrine - 09-26-2014
Due to the actions in the Bret-Kusari war, and their relation with the Gaians, Hogosha remain outlawed by bretonian authorities.
Meanwhile, Samura recovers its access to the Bretonian market (with some restrictions), and the bretonians return to Kusari.
Hogosha, due to their codes and relationship with Kusari law enforcement, cannot attack or pirate the bretonians inside Kusari, even though their relation is unfriendly hostile. On the other hand, everyone and their grandma can shoot any stray hogosha in Bretonia, according to the law.
Considering this, I ask the following: If hogosha groups decided to operate in and around Bretonia to target junkers (they can by their id), and considering their already bad relation with bretonians, would this affect in any way the relationship between bretonians and Samura/Kusari (since Hogosha/Bretonia relation is already at the worst condition possible)?