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+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports (/showthread.php?tid=12449)
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - jpo - 09-25-2008
It should be completely public, period. If you have something to hide keep it hidden, I.E. don't file in the the first place. On all ends.
Also, please don't quote statisitics that you pulled out of thin air. Cite a source or dont quote. This here is grown folks talk.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Fellow Hoodlum - 09-25-2008
The problem is an accident of the board, the outcome is those who's main hobby is sanction forum watching,
being able to see if anything has been posted on their respective reports. Its not a sport please
Plenty of posters fall well outside all the guidelines for making a report, and therefore rightly so, have to be
discounted.
There are those reports that could be classed as slightly frivolous, warnings may be given in game, or with
PMs in certain cases.
There are those who are just warned, and not necessarily publicly, so the results are kept away from prying
eyes, for obvious reasons now it seems.
And of course, there are those who's sanctions warrant a a serious sentence, those who break the rules, and
disrupt, or spoil the game experience for every other player. They get the public's attention.
But watching the board is not an option please, and making assumptions based on a name that may or may
not show up, is quite ludicrous. Personally I would like to see the problem vanish, but as the board is at the
moment, there is little we can do.
The way the report is titled has been changed now ... Please use it that way from now on. Continue to use
that template, and follow ALL the guidelines for posting please.
As for one hundred percent transparency, look to the United States' form of Oligarchic Democracy for your
answers. Nothing is that transparent, unless you wish for complete anarchy on these forums.
Hoodlum (Posting on behalf of the administrative team)
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:And this is where you miss the mark. So what if some of the sanctions are wrong? It happens, people make mistakes. It's not like anybody got hurt for real. If you can't see that then you are way too obsessed about the whole thing.
It seems you missed the same mark, if I make my stand it's really no different than the sanction being wrong, is it? It's just an internet board and game server and no one got hurt. In the grand scheme of things it's meaningless, but then in the grander scheme of things we are all meaningless depending on where you set the upper limit on your scale.
Now that we have all agreed life is meaningless and we are all as well, and that your points and mine have no bearing on anything lets continue, shall we? Because stopping at this point would be as meaningless as continuing, right?
' Wrote:It's ENTIRELY in their powers and it wouldn't even be wrong in the big picture of things. And guess what? I'm totally wiling to play by their rules.
I agree, they have the power to do whatever they want on the server, ban people because they don't like them personally for instance. However I am playing within their rules here, so there really isn't much more to say on that point. It's like saying I'm willing to breath air. It's just the way it is.
' Wrote:By making your Alamo here in way you have been doing it only has the opposite effect. You are making hard-liners out of more moderate guys who might have initially shared your sentiments.
I disagree because I know that for the most part people don't change, I'm not making hardliners out of anyone. There are always going to be people who don't care about the rules as much as they care about personal satifaction, the guys who cheer a bad call at a game when the bad call goes their way. I don't have the power to turn a fair person into one of those by trying to make a point.
The larger point here is that even though we all know there will always be bad sanctions, we also all know that real transparency will reduce the bad sanctions and the favoritism, and make things fairer for everyone. Nor will it lead to anarchy, any more than the currently open legal system in the US does, in fact it could bring some maturity to the boards by reducing the sanction reports that are done simply to get even with someone.
Isn't that a worthy goal? I know why the admins are against it, but why, really, are you?
And how about this, even if you disagree that cases should be completely open, shouldn't they be completely open between the people involved? Without hidden evidence, and with the ability to for the accused to give input prior to the sentence?
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Dra1003 - 09-25-2008
Edit: Forget what i just said
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Xoria - 09-25-2008
Baconsoda, this idea is counterproductive. The first thing I do when I go through rule violation reports is to edit the topic titles and descriptions so that they briefly describe the violation in the title and show the violator in the description. Having that information displayed that way is often a huge help in finding violation reports quickly when they cannot be dealt with immediately and we have to come back to them later. Otherwise it takes a lot more time searching to find the one we are looking for. I wish everyone would title their reports as I have asked them to do in the template.
So what you are asking here is only going to cost the Admins more time to fix and require more of our time when doing sanctions. There are so many posts on this board that they are only visible for a short period of time anyway. Unless you've spent time going through 20 rule violation reports, you have no idea how long it takes to deal with them when you cannot even locate the name of the one you want to find.
They need to be descriptive and they need to include the name of the violator. So please stop encouraging people to do something that will take up even more of our time.
And no polls.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Zero755 - 09-25-2008
Although I cant speak from expierance, I agree with Xoria's logic. The admins have real lives, jobs, families etc. And on top of that they manage Disco. Now i know what some of you might say, "Well they volunteered so they should deal with it" I think they are dealing with it the best that they can. Would you rather put someone with no real life expierance that just sits in front of a PC all day in charge? No because they dont have the life expierances that aid in decision making.
Cutting to the point, Making their job harder is counterproductive. I for one think that 99.9% of the time they do a great job, and if we the players can lend a hand, we should.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:I think they are dealing with it the best that they can.
There is a lot of room for improvement.
One of the perks of being an admin is power and respect, if they opened sanctions they will lose a little power, but will gain more respect. It's all about what's important to them.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - chopper - 09-25-2008
I don't see it as a big problem. If it really makes more work for admins, can we see the other side then?
I mean, if you see a report and start gossiping about it.. you'll eventually check if there's a sanction.
If there's no sanction - there's no bad reputation.
I mean, what's really at stake here? Someone will see that someone was reported and he'll spread the word?
So what? I can only guess how many times I was reported.
It doesn't mean I was sanctioned.
I'm not against the idea, I just don't understand the big hassle about it.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Korrd - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:Well, let me rephase it then. I'm not afraid to put a sanction report on anyone openly, because there's nothing to be afraid of.I agree that the process should be 100% public, as it used to be during the old disco times. But, there are certain reasons why the process is currently N.N.
Likewise I would want any sanction report on me done openly.
There's a reason it's done that way in every civilized court in the world.
The right to face your accusers and see the entirety of the evidence against you is nothing to be afraid of.
Now, if you want to ban me for that opinion do so.
- Retaliation. Many people who gets sanctioned tend to retaliate, either directly or indirectly against the one(s) who reported him/them. That's why the identity of the one who fills the report is kept secret. Screenshots and identity of the accuser can only be disclosed if said person agrees with it. Take as an example the incidents with certain player, who used lame RP excuses to turn his faction against those who opposed him.
- Trial by forum and general flaming. That happens almost 100% of the times a report is posted in public. Everybody wants to take part on the process, and most have their own way to do it. Hence, a flame war ensues. You can verify that by using the search engine.
Due to the aforementioned reasons, many people did not report violations for fear of retaliation or flames. When the thing was made N.N, people begun reporting violators like hell. Reports increased 20-fold. Ask Bulldognk, Hoodlum and Caylith about it. They took the bulk of the sanctions during the initial periods.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
If more violation reports are considered better than an open and fair trial then there's not much to add to that.
As far as trial by forum and general flaming, that still occurs, you can look at the mess that was my sanction to see how that was allowed to turn into a giant pile on. With 20 times the sanctions you used to have I don't see how you did gain there, because this trial by forum still happens often enough to note.
As far as retaliation, I think with anonymous reports you get far more reports filed for retaliation than you would otherwise, because I can file reports on people I don't like and have no fear of them finding out and drawing the motives for the filing to your attention. I guess that's only important if you don't want people gunning with their print screen button for revenge. Maybe that isn't important to you.
I also can't help but think that some reports might have been handled in game with open reports are now just reported to you instead. It's easier to report someone secretly than try to correct them in game for some people I'm sure.
And with the current system there is no method for an accused to have fair input into his sanction, to verify that the screenies were not tampered with or are even applicable to the same event that is being reported, or other evidence that might be faked or misrepresented, because you've put protecting the accuser above guilt or innocence of the accused.
It's not my decision to make, but I for one would rather be dragged through the mud openly and have a chance to defend myself than have some people behind closed doors judging me when they don't have my side of the story.