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+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Split from Admin Notice. (/showthread.php?tid=12653)
Split from Admin Notice. - Baltar - 10-01-2008
' Wrote:This is not about the number of factions people are in. It is about allowing for oppositional RP without forcing other players to play as "Psychotic"
Yes ... and I was taking it a step further.
Split from Admin Notice. - Akumabito - 10-01-2008
' Wrote:you still arent allowed to dictate the other players roleplay if they dont register, just KOS them.
However, if you are KOSing them because they didn't register like the 101st does, or because the ship they chose like the SA and RM do, and your reason is that you dictate their rp by calling them a trador or spy then that's OK with the admins.
Split from Admin Notice. - Tenacity - 10-01-2008
Quote:Admin Notice : Players dictating roleplay & diplomacy to others, RE : Liberty and The Order, etc
Notice the title here in bold yellow. The RE part is using Liberty and Order as an example ... but it applies to other situations besides just Liberty and Order ... hence the small but extremely important caveat at the end of the title. That little addon is "etc."
That little "etc" broadens the topic beyond just Liberty and Order.
So I suppose every liberty or rheinland ship enforcing the trade embargo is oorp and cant fire on lawful traders without being sanctioned then, eh? That was put into action by the factions involved - and whether Igiss supports it or not doesnt matter, the NPC's do not recognize it, why should the players eh?
That line of thinking is very narrow minded, and the admins are equally narrow minded for trying to cut out decent RP opportunities that have only had minor problems due to cocky players.
Quote:Well ... its great if there are two player factions attempting to role play a treaty between those two player factions. BUT ... you cannot force those who are NOT in your player faction to follow suit. If you are gonna force MY Order character to follow along with this role play treaty then Black Squadron better be ready for me to put a Bs| in front of my character's name. What say you Black Squadron?
We never forced anyone to follow it. Any order ship that goes into liberty without their permission should expect to be fired upon. Any liberty ship that comes into order space without our authorization should expect to be fired upon. The "cease-fire" ONCE AGAIN is a mutual agreement between the player factions and several independents involved that ensures neither of our groups will enter the other's territory. We arent hugging and holding hands, we're simply saying "we will respect your borders if you respect ours" - THAT'S IT.
Any players who break the treaty by entering the other side's space are working on their own, without the support of the liberty or order factions. They will not receive help from us in combat against the enemy if they ask for it, because they got themselves into the mess when we had an agreement with the other side already set up.
If a liberty ship wants to come into order space in ignorance of the treaty, so bet it - we will blow them up. We expect liberty to blow up our ships if we enter their space without asking permission beforehand. We wont attack our own players (orderberty players, faction or independent) because they choose to do something on their own that causes an incident, but we wont help them out of it either.
My post regarding Nomad_Killer (ryoken) 's actions in liberty space was only an 'apology' to liberty forces in-RP to avoid breaking the treaty between the factions, I was not supporting what he did nor condemning it, and neither myself or other order pilots ever attacked him in-game for what he did.
Quote:This is not the case with the Order, Black Squadron has declared it is the only Order player faction, and that there will be no others (this is not about whether I agree or disagree with it, just the situation at hand.) This leaves no outlet for Indy Order players to play out the story the Igiss has created for Discovery.
Black Squadron "is" the order -because- there are no other approved factions. If another order faction with PROPER-RP pops up and gets approved, so be it. However, Black squadron has been the official order faction for a very long time now, and they own omicron 100 - any new faction can be kept out of omicron 100 if black squadron chooses to restrict that space from them, just like epyon keeps even other outcast factions out of omicron 85. Whoever owns the guard system makes the rules there.
The question is whether or not another order faction will ever be approved to begin with. Do you think the admins will ever approve another rheinland military faction? Or another nomad faction? Probably not.
Quote:Now I know other factions have declared themselves the only player faction of a particular faction, for example RM. The difference is RM is not going against the set storyline for the game. If the only options for a Order player are follow Black Squadrons and Tenebras and Tenacities orders, or be declared insane. You have not left enough room for other people to have their rp. Statements like this;
Why the **** cant anyone listen to what we're saying here?
We're not telling you how to play, but we arent helping you if you choose to play opposite to how we are. If you want to attack liberty, fine - but we will declare you a rogue pilot acting under your own command and not our own, because supporting such independent actions would bring the liberty factions against us again.
Everything we've done has been proper to RP and handled in-RP, yet here everyone is acting out against it because they simply dont understand the concept. Tell you what - when you've had an order character in a fighter and been forced to fly against fleets of bounty hunter battleships, liberty capwhore fleets, and keepers in ridiculously overpowered nomad ships, then you can complain. We're trying to get liberty out of the picture so we can deal with the others that are causing us problems.
Quote:show even more that you want to control the RP of others, and thats one thing when your going along with the storyline of the game, but here you are not, and therefor need to make more room for people to RP opposition to the agreement, not less room.
Orin isnt even a part of the order, he plays a merc, a liberty player, and a synth pilot.
Point being: EVERYONE has to have someone to report to. I guarantee you that if you start any lawful character on this server and start doing things that go directly against what the official factions of that affiliation RP, they will condemn you as a rogue who has either gone insane or no longer follows orders. You cannot have a fighter pilot working on his own, no more than you can have a battleship working on his own.
Independents dont realize this, they think that because they arent part of an official faction they can do anything they want and have nobody to report to and dont have to take any responsibility for their actions. That is not true. My order character takes orders from the leaders of black squadron, and I govern my own actions based on general guidelines that fit the order. Most independents dont do that, because they want all the power with none of the responsibility.
Quote:I've got to agree with Zelot here ... player factions can role play their faction as they see fit and can dictate what goes on in their Guard systems. But as I recall ... the original system ownership parameters did not extend to all systems. Those of us that do not have a character in every single major faction on discovery should not be slaves to those who DO have characters in every faction.
Most of my characters are loners ... independents. And I've only got 3 characters in 2 factions. Two of my characters are in Junker Congress and the third is a Mandalorian. All 3 of my characters in factions are in neutral factions. And neither of these factions are system owning factions (at least not yet). And neither faction has a huge ZoI to claim.
So to all you mega-faction types ... give us non-faction whoring types a little breathing room.
Directed at the majority of independent players: You can have breathing room when you earn it.
Nomad_Killer (ryoken) went into texas chasing a nomad. That was in-RP. After the nomad got away from him, he took a stroll into new york, sat over a lawful base, and obliterated lawful and civilian NPC's for several minutes before the lawful forces arrived.
THE ORDER DOES NOT KILL INNOCENTS. No matter if you're independent or factioned, you cannot go against that - the order was founded to protect humanity, not to stroll into a core house system and start blasting everything that moves. He was OORP with those actions, and clearly not portraying the behavior of a proper order commander. What he did was his own fault, and because he's an independent the only person that can be held responsible is himself. If he refuses to take responsibility for it and get upset enough to delete his character - which he did - that's his own fault as well.
I used to be soooo pro-independent, but I've begun to see what so many others keep missing - and that's the fact that most indy players want all the power they can get but dont want to have to follow orders or answer to anyone else when they **** up - and that's exactly what happens most of the time. Every time an indy ****s up, a faction gets blamed. When an order independent like Ryoken goes into the enemy's home system and starts tearing the place apart, it isnt him that gets blamed, it's black squadron - because they are recognized as the leaders of the order. Exactly what the hell are they supposed to do about it? He's an independent, he wont listen to them.
I've started to change how I RP on Aki to avoid that, I take responsibility for my own actions where other indies dont, and I answer to the leaders of black squadron while other indies dont.
I'm not in any factions myself, but at least i dont act out of line for my character.
Quote:poppycock. If a player wants to be an independent they need to follow the server rules and the rp of the faction. thats it.
That's exactly what I said, you're just twisting words to make me look bad here. How many independent, say... liberty lawful players... do you see with respectable RP who always follow server rules and never break character for a member of their chosen affiliation? Very few.
A faction can punish it's members when they act out of RP, but there is no higher rank over an independent - he does whatever the hell he wants without someone to make sure he doesnt screw up. That takes responsibility, and it's something few independents here have. There are, admittedly, a lot of very good indy players - myself, tenabras, gafwmn, and numerous others; but they are FAR outnumbered by the bad players who cause problems just because they want to.
Split from Admin Notice. - Akumabito - 10-01-2008
' Wrote:There are, admittedly, a lot of very good indy players - myself, tenabras, gafwmn, and numerous others; but they are FAR outnumbered by the bad players who cause problems just because they want to.
I see most real problems being caused by faction members myself.
Split from Admin Notice. - Tenacity - 10-01-2008
' Wrote:I see most real problems being caused by faction members myself.
Until you've actually tried to run one yourself, kindly shut the **** up. You have no idea how difficult it is to keep people in line.
Split from Admin Notice. - RingoW - 10-01-2008
Well, Tenacity, i do understand your point.
Unfortunately you and some other players tend to overact when it comes to matters of rp.
I would call this rp fanatism and this is as wrong as oorp is.
Live and let live, simple
AoM
ps: admin notice signed by me
Split from Admin Notice. - jpo - 10-01-2008
Quote:That's exactly what I said, you're just twisting words to make me look bad here. How many independent, say... liberty lawful players... do you see with respectable RP who always follow server rules and never break character for a member of their chosen affiliation? Very few.
Not trying to make anyone look bad, just arranging the semantics to be objective rather than subjective. Subjective rules are the bane of this server without a doubt. What one person considers respectable RP another will threaten sanctions for.
Split from Admin Notice. - Tenacity - 10-01-2008
I grow tired of repeating myself:
Order and Liberty players who do not follow the treaty/cease-fire are acting of their own accord and will not be supported in any way by the player factions or other players of those affiliations who agree with the guidelines of the treaty.
We do not take action against people who break this treaty (people of our own affiliation) in any way. If an order player goes into liberty to start trouble, I wont help him, and neither will tenabras or any black squadron member. However, we will not attack him when he returns to order space, the most we can do is warn him that he's being an idiot and acting in a manner we do not defend.
The terms of the treaty are very simple, yet apparently not simple enough for most players (or admins) here to understand:
Order ships dont go into liberty space
Liberty ships dont go into order space
Simple as that. If you break those guidelines you're working on your own, and we will tell the enemy such. If you call for assistance, you wont get it.
We are not helping liberty unless it's against alien threats. They are not helping us at all. We are not trading technologies, we are not working together or going on couples-night out, we're simply trying to avoid fighting each other so we can focus our efforts on the REAL enemy - the bounty hunters and nomads.
Split from Admin Notice. - Baltar - 10-01-2008
' Wrote:However, if you are KOSing them because they didn't register like the 101st does, or because the ship they chose like the SA and RM do, and your reason is that you dictate their rp by calling them a trador or spy then that's OK with the admins.
Hmm ... I remember when Hellfire Legion [HF] (a Lane Hacker player faction) tried to get admins to prohibit anyone not associated with HF from obtaining the Spyglass. Admins said no way ... Spyglass was not limited to HF. Funny thing ... can only get the Spyglass in the Vespucci system.
' Wrote:So I suppose every liberty or rheinland ship enforcing the trade embargo is oorp and cant fire on lawful traders without being sanctioned then, eh? That was put into action by the factions involved - and whether Igiss supports it or not doesnt matter, the NPC's do not recognize it, why should the players eh?
You say its contraband ... fine ... my pirate considers prisoners and military equipment traveling through Sigma 13 as contraband. But to say I'm not allowed to fly a certain ship or have certain equipment or I'm not allowed to attack my enemies or I must attack my enemies ... you're going a bit far. You wanna do an embargo ... no problem.
I will say this though ... YOU ... Tenacity ... leader of whatever faction ... are not dictator of Disco. We do not bow down to you sir. Good role play means we all benefit. If we have to sacrifice our role play so you are satisfied ... you're asking too much.
Example ... ban on mercenaries in Liberty, Gamma and Rheinland way back. NO mercenary was able to role play ANYWHERE on the entire server because the three major factions on disco blanketed a ban on anyone with a Mercenary ID (with exception to a couple Mercenary "player factions"). I used to fly a Bretonian gunboat named Baltar ... first character I created here. Yeah ... that was fun ... I got to fly where NOBODY else flew ... woo hoo ... loads of fun. Notice that my Baltar character doesn't exist anymore. Thanks for that by the way.
If you're gonna role play some "ban" on whatever ... make the ban temporary. There was absolutely no joy trying to role play a mercenary named Baltar in Liberty when a Liberty Assault Cruiser comes up to you ... orders you to leave ... you explain your trying to find work escorting traders ... and then you explode. Role play for the Mercenary ID came to a complete and utter stand still ... almost non-existent because the 3 major factions on Disco said ... "you are banned."
Last I checked ... only admins have this power.
I'm not going to address the remainder of your post ... especially where you chose to curse with asterisks.
' Wrote:Until you've actually tried to run one yourself, kindly shut the **** up. You have no idea how difficult it is to keep people in line.
Ignoring the cursing with asterisks here ... running a faction does not make you dictator sir. Your job is to run your faction ... not run Disco.
Split from Admin Notice. - sovereign - 10-01-2008
' Wrote:I see most real problems being caused by faction members myself.
Give it a rest for a bit, we have important matters to discuss. Your crusade has been tabled until such time as there isn't anything interested. Try again on Thursday please, we may have an opening for you due to power outages in ooRP neighborhoods.
Now that I've gone through that, well, sorry to say but I'm going to lump this into the "probably should have thought a bit more on the implications before laying this down" pile. Aside from the Order/Liberty treaty, the following things are now 'against the rules'.
Shooting military ID'd folk who haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about (i.e. most indy RM, 90% of Liberty, anything around Crete that doesn't have a fighter character- with a few notable exceptions, etc)
Enforcing embargoes
Determining contraband based on reason rather than game code/silly NPCs
Having a character P/O another organization
Ganging up on a common foe (RM and VF team up to kill Wild here and there, I'd hate to lose that)
Shooting people who break laws
See where I'm going with this? If players can't make laws, then, um, sorry, but (for example) hey Virus, that title of Chancellor means NOTHING, anyone can now freely buy a RH BB and sit around with it so long as they don't talk or shoot. I'd add more but my internet is about to shut off.