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BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Printable Version

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RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - FallenKnight - 11-30-2015

(11-30-2015, 04:42 PM)Hidamari Wrote: the one in the dock of southampton is a million times better than any of the propositions being made here, and the current model combined.
That might be so but only because its considered as "complete model" and of "quality for this mod" - even if being unplayable due to technical issues. But it was rejected by the community before years so its pointless to debate around it. Also the propositions made here are nothing but concepts until a final model is on the scene and inside a submission thread - then it would be legit to state such drastic respond that "X ship model submission is not good".
Discussing the current ingame model is pointless - people want it to be changed but so far no actual model of "quality for this mod" exist in present - and no, the prototype is not part of this existence. In order to make it playable someone will have to get permission from Jinx to change it but then the model wont be as close as that due to the removal of parts, replacing them with new ones and etc...will be absolutely new ship and considering people didn't like it that much - would be good assumption that a fresh model that community might like - should be delivered.

(11-30-2015, 04:43 PM)Unlucky_Soul Wrote: Thanks for the feedback.will get to work on it. It doesn't fit in my screen Big Grin Big Grin
No problem also I've changed the image but some details got diminished. Between - don't bother with texturing it cuz its taking you time to invest in something that WILL be changed in future. Just focus on shaping the model for now and once all details around it are clear and with no issues - then texturing it will be of great adventure due to complicated level of detail on the bretonian textures.

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Nexodius - 11-30-2015

what about something like this? oh by this one there is no dock on the belly forget the arrow on the underside Big Grin


[Image: 9i_M8q5l_1.png]
upload png

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - FallenKnight - 11-30-2015

Nice one. I did a fast drawing but your's better. The antennas over there makes sense and the changes to the repetitive parts would make it more distinctive then kirk. If you have more ideas just update your post with new images. But focus on middle body only because that is the only thing missing from his model. We need the model to be complete as a whole before discussing any further what changes to be done here and there.

@Unlucky_Soul, I recommend you to wait some time for other people to give their drawing ideas instead to jump in to modelling a final product. The more ideas the better - for inspiration. If you want you can prepare only middle body part/s (not whole ship) so it will be easier for feedback and less time consuming for you.

Also, Imports are out of the line but if you have some interesting ideas/images from other sci-fi genre but close to Bretonia in terms of model - share them guys. (For example Warhammer: Space Marine's battle barges are flying cathedrals with a lot of Gothic elements close to what Bretonia are using in FL)

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Hidamari - 11-30-2015

(11-30-2015, 06:15 PM)FallenKnight Wrote:
(11-30-2015, 04:42 PM)Hidamari Wrote: the one in the dock of southampton is a million times better than any of the propositions being made here, and the current model combined.
That might be so but only because its considered as "complete model" and of "quality for this mod" - even if being unplayable due to technical issues. But it was rejected by the community before years so its pointless to debate around it. Also the propositions made here are nothing but concepts until a final model is on the scene and inside a submission thread - then it would be legit to state such drastic respond that "X ship model submission is not good".
Discussing the current ingame model is pointless - people want it to be changed but so far no actual model of "quality for this mod" exist in present - and no, the prototype is not part of this existence. In order to make it playable someone will have to get permission from Jinx to change it but then the model wont be as close as that due to the removal of parts, replacing them with new ones and etc...will be absolutely new ship and considering people didn't like it that much - would be good assumption that a fresh model that community might like - should be delivered.

All of the ones being presented are just mashups of old ships with far too many lines of obvious symmetry, with no attempt made as far as images show, to really try anything new.

New being not a ship made of rotated pre-fab pieces cut from the stock models and glued together.

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - FallenKnight - 11-30-2015

That what you speak of is something we all can see - the author is using kit-bash method in an attempt to make a new model. I don't want to sound like defending him but at least respect that he is giving his time to do something which, well so far only Jam and Jinx did - to bring new ship on Bretonia line. Speaking of Jam - the current Paladin model is also kit-bash (with a lot of tweaks) but it does look great and not out of place.

This thread is about concept and modeling for a possible ship model replacement - not a submission one, so it would be best if those that post actually try to deliver some feedback to assist the model to become better than its current state. Yes Unlucky_Soul is using kit-bashing and a lot of mirror-ing...but he haven't completed anything so far to call it a final product - so bashing him, even lightly, will not help at all. Instead drop some feedback, images, ideas, anything to guide him.

Building bretonian ship is hard job due to the fact the vanila ones are very complex. If you are expecting something absolutely new to look bretonian without any similarities then look at the current model because everything on it is inspired by vanila line and was done with new parts. Wait...ppl dont like it right? Well it have the shape but a lot of things are missing on it but primary - the vanila "touch". The only way to add this "touch" to a possible bretonian cap is to use at least some elements of each ship (for diversity sake) and combine them to look well fitting and of course - to add new things in between. Very few modelers would care to try build a bretonian ship since years and nearly all of the current ones have rejected offers to work on a model - so instead to diminish the number of those trying - encourage them.

(11-30-2015, 08:00 PM)Hidamari Wrote: New being not a ship made of rotated pre-fab pieces cut from the stock models and glued together.
You statement is legit but in the current RP behind the carrier and Bretonian RP situation - that is something acceptable and logical to be done. The carrier was supposed to be build with resources from Liberty and part of the remaining ones in Bretonia and due to the lack of time to prepare absolutely new ship from ground zero - the engineers would definitely take the best of what they have and improve - which leads us back to kit-bashing method, which is legit for this model for this period of RP.
(If Bretonia in the distant years changes somehow, to be back on its feet, then a new model to represent that can Always be brought on a line - to look fresh and new)

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Unlucky_Soul - 12-01-2015

(11-30-2015, 08:00 PM)Hidamari Wrote:
(11-30-2015, 06:15 PM)FallenKnight Wrote:
(11-30-2015, 04:42 PM)Hidamari Wrote: the one in the dock of southampton is a million times better than any of the propositions being made here, and the current model combined.
That might be so but only because its considered as "complete model" and of "quality for this mod" - even if being unplayable due to technical issues. But it was rejected by the community before years so its pointless to debate around it. Also the propositions made here are nothing but concepts until a final model is on the scene and inside a submission thread - then it would be legit to state such drastic respond that "X ship model submission is not good".
Discussing the current ingame model is pointless - people want it to be changed but so far no actual model of "quality for this mod" exist in present - and no, the prototype is not part of this existence. In order to make it playable someone will have to get permission from Jinx to change it but then the model wont be as close as that due to the removal of parts, replacing them with new ones and etc...will be absolutely new ship and considering people didn't like it that much - would be good assumption that a fresh model that community might like - should be delivered.

All of the ones being presented are just mashups of old ships with far too many lines of obvious symmetry, with no attempt made as far as images show, to really try anything new.

New being not a ship made of rotated pre-fab pieces cut from the stock models and glued together.

I deliberately used pre fab pieces because the RP demanded it. If i wanted i could make a whole new model but it doesn't fit the RP aspect of why the carrier was made.

I did make new models based on my own design. The Bret GB and Core Heavy battleship are ones i put up in the forums(Not to mention the Etherium ships)

I would appreciate if you would give some feedback regarding the model. If you have some ideas on how to make it better, please do throw it Smile

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Unlucky_Soul - 12-03-2015

Check OP. Added new model

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Hidamari - 12-03-2015

good effort. you just need to keep trying more things until you eventually get rid of both of those bretonian battleship parts that are glued to the top and bottom

the middle looks nice.

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - FallenKnight - 12-03-2015

(12-03-2015, 04:21 PM)Unlucky_Soul Wrote: Check OP. Added new model
Nice improvement to the old model. My feedback will be shorter because there are few remaining issues that needs tweaking.
- Overall the new model looks "nearly" complete. The general shape is not hard to be noticed - all elements are present. I really like what you did with the engine - it looks logically well armored and its size is fine. The reactor is not looking odd, its fine as well. The middle part is well connected and its shape is acceptable. There is no need to tweak these elements for now. Below will post an image containing some improvements that you need to work on.

[Image: j8yUB9O.png]

- Area "1" and "2", marked with the black square were originally "yellow" on your model and empty. Change the color to red to make the inner hull obviously "separated" from the armor shell and connected to the middle part of the ship (which is also red). Put some windows there (I gave you these hints in the early feedback) The model in this way will look less empty and more populated with personnel.
- Area "3" and "4", same as "1" and "2" - keep the red color but just add the windows - its necessity otherwise looks oddly empty.
- Middle area is nice - the only changes in future might consider the different positioning on the "weapon platforms" but that is too early to be bothered with. Keep it this way for now.
- "5" is the Bretonian flag, which is still present on the upper part (from image "5 old") - put it in the middle like "new" one. Centered flag will look better.
- The model is missing something...so my proposal is "Control Tower" - something with 360 degree operational view range. So I did an example of where to place it - of course you do your own tower. Add some minor antennas (no need for big ones) just to indicate its a control tower and...windows at each side - again up to you how to do it.

- Now...about the armor shell "7" and "8" what Dii said about the dunkirk armor is legit. All else looks new - with of course similarities to the kirk but you've done well to hide them ( like the engine armor). You need to keep this shape - its unique - but do try to change both Shells. From this post - hint number "11" - try to use destroyer armor shell for the top replacement but modify it to make it slightly different and less "cut from the dessi". For the bottom one - keep the current but modify it - how its up to you - surprise us. These are "dangerous" steps cuz they might change the overall model shape in a bad way, so take your time and explore how to handle this "final" obvious and huge issue.

Thanks for posting the model with the textures - I guess they do take some of your time to be done accordingly but at least the review of the model is better. Still, texturing the bretonian model will be 50% of the overall ship presentation in the end. Bad textures and colors might make it look odd...nicely decorated, on the other hand, will make it complete. So once you are done with the modifications, primary considering replacing the both Armor Shells - then (if all else is fine) we can move forward to texturing it to look close to vanila in terms of detail. For now just do the improvements and post the results. There are few more things which I have in mind but we need the model to be nearly complete.
Good work, keep it up.

RE: BAF- Carrier Re-imagined - Thunderer - 12-04-2015

The engine looks too bulky with that structure on it. Two plain engines instead of one might look better, vertically aligned I suppose. The two curves before the engine look like if they were cloned, as well as the front shells or hangars and the bridge. Fallen's version of the meat-in-the-sandwich structure reminds me of 18th century ships of the line, although the cloning is still a problem.
I like the added stern bridge and the middle "wheel". The middle hardpoints might need some smoothing or something else, they look too edgy. Maybe just hollow, like cardboard boxes.