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+--- Thread: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) (/showthread.php?tid=136782)
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Wesker - 03-08-2016
(03-07-2016, 10:31 PM)Operator SmileWhileAlive Wrote: what could it change? Spectating some lolwuts flying marduks and raping everything without RP... Meh, won't see it.
Marduks don't r4pe anything though.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Lythrilux - 03-08-2016
This isn't a cap balance thread, please keep on topic.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - HassLHoFF™ - 03-08-2016
Ehhh? No. Better thing would be to improve the recruitment process. Which is Huggie already on to I think. Probably, remove the ID entirely, ease the recruitment and directly support players into nomad gameplay.
Unregulated Terrorist IDs with caps should be a no go. I just remind you on the time AI cruisers were allowed to attack anything within their ZOI.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Lythrilux - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 02:35 AM)Genexus Wrote: Ehhh? No. Better thing would be to improve the recruitment process. Which is Huggie already on to I think. Probably, remove the ID entirely, ease the recruitment and directly support players into nomad gameplay.
But why should people have to join K'Hara? Imagine if people had to join [LN] to fly Liberty Navy. Or had to join [TAZ] to fly Zoners.
There is a critical problem here and the need to sign up to the faction to fix it - which evidently isn't working because I am not seeing Nomad an influx of numbers nor seeing a fix to this big pvp imbalance issue - is unecessary. And as I said the reason why there's no alternative to K'Hara is because the indie ID itself is incredibly and needlessly restrictive.
And the notion of removing the ID is a joke. Should we start taking away the indie IDs of all NPC factions just because of some unjust and preconceived idea that actually taking way restrictions and buffing some for better gameplay is terrible? Or that just because indie RP will never be 100% equal to official faction RP, we shouldn't bother allowing indies at all?
Basic Nomad RP, in accordance to the NPC faction and vanilla, is not difficult. For the more advanced stuff, K'Hara show them the ropes. But for the sake of logging in, raiding me and I shoot them back, and in the process everyone has a fun time? Basic requirements.
(03-08-2016, 02:35 AM)Genexus Wrote: Unregulated Terrorist IDs with caps should be a no go. I just remind you on the time AI cruisers were allowed to attack anything within their ZOI.
I couldn't remember a moment when I shed a tear over that. In fact, I didn't even know it had been changed. When was this? Anyway, apples and oranges. We're talking about Nomads here. There's not really a problem with an AI shortage as the AI ID is open enough and unrestricted enough for indies to play it and not be hopelessly outmatched by everything else in the Omicrons. We can't say the same for the Nomad ID. And it's hardly unregulated; if people screw up they'll be punished by the rules.
Where is all this stigma coming from? On one hand it seems like K'Hara doesn't want anyone to get access to their toys because it seemingly runs the risk of making them defunct (when it really doesn't), on the other people have these unjust fears that allowing Nomad indies to stand toe-to-toe with their enemies in the Omicrons will somehow make them worse than every other indiebase combined and be the biggest crisis since the Wall Street Crash. If letting indies use caps is really this oh-so-bad then perhaps we should remove caps from every ID?
Christ the amount of snooby elitism in this thread absolutely stinks and it's what's killing this mod. I'm almost starting to feel sick when making some of these replies.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Jeremy Hunter - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 02:57 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Where is all this stigma coming from? On one hand it seems like K'Hara doesn't want anyone to get access to their toys because it seemingly runs the risk of making them defunct (when it really doesn't), on the other people have these unjust fears that allowing Nomad indies to stand toe-to-toe with their enemies in the Omicrons will somehow make them worse than every other indiebase combined and be the biggest crisis since the Wall Street Crash. If letting indies use caps is really this oh-so-bad then perhaps we should remove caps from every ID?
Christ the amount of snooby elitism in this thread absolutely stinks and it's what's killing this mod. I'm almost starting to feel sick when making some of these replies.
Look at the entire GRN-BAF conflict. Even with all the ID freedoms that conflict is as stagnant as the Order-Nomad conflict.
I have my own misgivings about people given the Nomad ID, but when the Order was restricted to the Omicrons in caps with the ID changes, it made a lot of bullshizznit end. It could work, but that is up to the official faction. It'd make the fighters fair, possibly. Again, look at the GRN-BAF conflict. I led GRN, and hell, we still were outgunned. One of the few times I remember a fair fight was when Dab, myself, and another Valor kept that one shrimp base's weapons down as our fighters engaged. Was fun. We had a huge fight a few months later, pretty even at first.
But that is a few instances out of multiple ridiculous and utterly idiotic fights I witness while leading the GRN, and I have no doubt Omi has dealt with the same. Could giving Nomad indies access to caps give us more war? Sure. But it also could give us an UNBALANCED war in the end, much like the GRN/BAF war did.
But the server can prove us all wrong.
That's my final thoughts on the matter.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - HuggieSunrise - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 02:14 AM)Wesker Wrote:(03-08-2016, 01:34 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote: all this will do is nerf my faction when the marduk tidal wave surges. and the week after the nerfs youl see just as many as there are now.
Marduk isn't op though.
Ill be under your bed wesky.
you know as well as i do IT DOESENT NEED to be op. the other guy just has to know how to cry.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Jeremy Hunter - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 03:12 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote:(03-08-2016, 02:14 AM)Wesker Wrote:(03-08-2016, 01:34 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote: all this will do is nerf my faction when the marduk tidal wave surges. and the week after the nerfs youl see just as many as there are now.
Marduk isn't op though.
Ill be under your bed wesky.
you know as well as i do IT DOESENT NEED to be op. the other guy just has to know how to cry.
And I have to agree with Huggie here.
The criers can and will cry, and the Nomads could get nerfed.
What's the fix if that happens, Lyth?
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Wesker - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 03:20 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote:(03-08-2016, 03:12 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote:(03-08-2016, 02:14 AM)Wesker Wrote:(03-08-2016, 01:34 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote: all this will do is nerf my faction when the marduk tidal wave surges. and the week after the nerfs youl see just as many as there are now.
Marduk isn't op though.
Ill be under your bed wesky.
you know as well as i do IT DOESENT NEED to be op. the other guy just has to know how to cry.
And I have to agree with Huggie here.
The criers can and will cry, and the Nomads could get nerfed.
What's the fix if that happens, Lyth?
I mean we have a cap advisor now for a reason.
*wesker peaks out the window and waves*
Also if we listend to the communities imput on balance, the geb would be buffed and the thresher would be nerfed.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Jeremy Hunter - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 03:23 AM)Wesker Wrote:(03-08-2016, 03:20 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote:(03-08-2016, 03:12 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote:(03-08-2016, 02:14 AM)Wesker Wrote:(03-08-2016, 01:34 AM)HuggieSunrise Wrote: all this will do is nerf my faction when the marduk tidal wave surges. and the week after the nerfs youl see just as many as there are now.
Marduk isn't op though.
Ill be under your bed wesky.
you know as well as i do IT DOESENT NEED to be op. the other guy just has to know how to cry.
And I have to agree with Huggie here.
The criers can and will cry, and the Nomads could get nerfed.
What's the fix if that happens, Lyth?
I mean we have a cap advisor now for a reason.
*wesker peaks out the window and waves*
Also if we listend to the communities imput on balance, the geb would be buffed and the thresher would be nerfed.
Well the arcs do suck for the Geb, a bit. But that's personal input, not super duper special awesome pro l33t input.
And honestly Wesker, we've had it happen before. It's not a stretch, it's a fear brought on by the past. How can we be sure?
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Lythrilux - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 03:05 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: Look at the entire GRN-BAF conflict. Even with all the ID freedoms that conflict is as stagnant as the Order-Nomad conflict.
I don't think that's a good example. There's many other factors that can explain why the conflict has died down which are not related to ID restrictions which I'm sure the leaders of those factions can explain. I don't think the IDs have had any changes in the past several years either. Although interestingly enough GRN has been asking repeatedly to get California ZoI added to the GRN ID (which they haven't reccivied yet) to increase activity and rejuvinate the conflict.
Let's steer closer to home though. Yeah, the Order-Nomad conflict is stagnant. And so is the Core-Nomad conflict. However, the Core-Order conflict isn't stagnant (bar last month and probably this one, it's hard to get my faction logging when I can't log in myself with them, but lets talk generally here). And The Core's conflicts with all it's enemies aren't stagnant either. I don't really know what else Order shoots aside from Core and Nomads. Remembering that the Omicrons are a PvP-orientated region where Caps are the norm, what one important quality is the Nomd ID missing that all the other factions are not? Access to capitals and a reasonably active indiebase, that's what.
(03-08-2016, 03:05 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: I have my own misgivings about people given the Nomad ID, but when the Order was restricted to the Omicrons in caps with the ID changes, it made a lot of bullshizznit end. It could work, but that is up to the official faction. It'd make the fighters fair, possibly. Again, look at the GRN-BAF conflict. I led GRN, and hell, we still were outgunned. One of the few times I remember a fair fight was when Dab, myself, and another Valor kept that one shrimp base's weapons down as our fighters engaged. Was fun. We had a huge fight a few months later, pretty even at first.
The Order being restricted with where the caps go hasn't changed anything though. That line is supposed to stop indies rolling around Sirius with a terrorist ID shooting pretty much anything they want with Ossies, Gebs and Resephs. Core has the same restriction, albeit it was lifted a little to allow them to field caps in all their ZoI rather than just systems withotu jump gates, and that's to prevent indies hunting down Nomads, Order and Wild all over Sirius. It doesn't affect the conflict on the home turf however, as those factions have free access to fly whatever they want. Nomads don't though, which is why you're not getting people logging Nomad fighters to take on Capitals which are the popular ship choice in the Edge Worlds.
(03-08-2016, 03:05 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: But that is a few instances out of multiple ridiculous and utterly idiotic fights I witness while leading the GRN, and I have no doubt Omi has dealt with the same. Could giving Nomad indies access to caps give us more war? Sure. But it also could give us an UNBALANCED war in the end, much like the GRN/BAF war did.
It won't give us an unbalanced war though. The war right now IS unbalanced to the extreme which is why it is not fun for indie Nomads. I want to fight caps becauase I fly caps. The norm IS capital ships. I'm suggesting lifting the restrictions to facilitate the ID to the norm, not break or change it.
(03-08-2016, 03:05 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: But the server can prove us all wrong.
That's my final thoughts on the matter.
Yeah, I think we should trial it.
(03-08-2016, 03:20 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: And I have to agree with Huggie here.
The criers can and will cry, and the Nomads could get nerfed.
What's the fix if that happens, Lyth?
If the ships are broken (which only the Rabisu is) then our PvP devs will balance them. I know for a fact that Haste and co are smart enough to not balance ships because people 'cry' about them. Proper analysis and testing is done before a ship is nerfed, or buffed.
Anyway as I said this is not a PvP balance thread.