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+---- Thread: Can we please change the snub changes back? (/showthread.php?tid=147221)
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Vendetta - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 03:45 PM)Corile Wrote:(01-21-2017, 03:43 PM)Vendetta Wrote:(01-21-2017, 03:42 PM)Corile Wrote:(01-21-2017, 03:38 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote:(01-21-2017, 03:33 PM)Corile Wrote: Reasoning?
practical reasons of being able to control your ship in pvp and out of pvp.
being able to control your ship in going x y z is the basics/foundation
I don't really see how that impacts your ability to move your ship out of pvp. It makes dodging slightly more challenging and accomplishes the goal of making shieldrunning less viable.
Another counter to shieldrunning - shooting. People don't have a hard time of countering it in group fights.
I dunno, last groupfight I was in I was practically invincible with shieldrunning, despite fighting against people who I would think knew what they were doing. Maybe something has changed since two days ago.
I don't have a hard time hitting people who are shield running. That's kind of the point of high-refire guns. I've spent most of the past few days shooting people who shield run and hug caps. I still manage to do damage.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Sombs - 01-21-2017
Make snub guns more effective against other snubs. Projectile speed higher, simply. if you make them do more damage, you'd need to scale up the hitpoints of everything bigger than a snub to rebalance it. As I always say we could have a well-working rock-paper-scissors-chain by making snubs only good vs snubs and bombers, while bombers are the way to go against anything bigger than snubs.
Fighter - Good vs Fighters and Bombers
Bombers - Good vs Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships
Gunboats - Good vs Fighters, partially weak against Gunboats
Cruisers - Good vs Gunboats, weak against Bombers
Battleships - Good vs Cruisers, weak against Bombers
The problem is that it would need a rework of everything in terms of hitpoints and bomber damage output against capitals.
The worst bullshiet however is snubs being able to take down battleships, and all CDs being able to prevent a battleship from escaping. Add a heavy CD just against cruisers and battleships, because it's stupid a CD can stop mighty Battleship engines. Like, right now, there is no need to have certain loadouts, as you can do everything with a snub. Fighting other snubs, harming armored traders, annoying the hell out of Battleships while they can't do much about it.
Edit: I can figure out myself that splitting CD effects needs some sort of code magic.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Corile - 01-21-2017
Make snubs only good against snubs and delete all other ship classes
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Black Widow - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 04:39 PM)Corile Wrote: Make snubs only good against snubs and delete all other ship classes
delete you
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Epo - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 04:41 PM)Black Widow Wrote:(01-21-2017, 04:39 PM)Corile Wrote: Make snubs only good against snubs and delete all other ship classes
Small offtopic:
Fighters aren't really good against battleships. They're just annoying for them as it's easier to hit fat BS with snub guns than small snub with BS guns. BSs would need something more efficient at hitting and my vote would be most likely for infinite-ammo small solaris-class missiles with a bit lower refire rate. But well it isn't going to happen. Small CD disrupting bs engines makes no sense either, but it would need some good coding to change that.
About the current snubpatch: I vote NO. I'm sure that devs will do something about it when some time passes.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Corile - 01-21-2017
Battleships are not supposed to hit snubs.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Sombs - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 05:23 PM)Epona Wrote:(01-21-2017, 04:41 PM)Black Widow Wrote:(01-21-2017, 04:39 PM)Corile Wrote: Make snubs only good against snubs and delete all other ship classes
Both classes shouldn't harm the other at all. Battleship weapon fire is too slow to hit anything smaller than a gunboat (and also has a bad time with gunboats except the Nammu, which is fine though) and snub weapon fire shouldn't be able to harm a battleship shield even with three snubs. However, Right now, every snub, no matter what loadout, is able to horribly annoy a battleship without the battleship being able to do something about it. You can slow a battleship down, and even without being able to damage it at all, the battleship can't dock away from an annoying snub because it would be PvP-dead. Three snubs are enough to down a battleship using mini-razors or torpedos, while the battleship can't do anything about it. Now people in discussions about it come up with "Freelancer wasn't made for battleships" but that is just stupid, because even in vanilla SP, when you had to face a battleship, you had invulnerable teammates, bomber assistance and all that hollywood stuff. But the mod changed that. Effectively. And the possibility is there to make things work like in any good strategy game, where you don't use trash unit spams to win but strategically use the right ships with the right loadout. Sadly, the PvP meta prefers to ignore the fact that one of the major features of this mod is being able to fly not only snubs, but also everything else, and when it offers this, it can offer it in a good way, instead of making snubs the allround-weapon to blue or annoy everyone.
Making the projectiles of smaller ships flying faster while buffing anti-capital-only weapons (bombers, anti-capital-non-snub-loadout) as well as capital hulls/capital shields would be a good way to accomplish that. However, that would require the Dev team to do as someone else said instead of trying to affix a stamp on the mod by making this weird thing. I know, the last update was more of an accident, but even if it was implemented correctly, I doubt people would have come up with an actual good idea to both make snub-fights not only piling-up-and-dodge-like-there-is-no-tomorrow-until-the-other-side-dies-first without buffing snubs even more.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Backo - 01-21-2017
To be honest there is no same ship class pvp that doesn't boil down to pile on 1 person, when dead pile on the next.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Sombs - 01-21-2017
Any other ship class however can actually do something in the meantime instead of being forced to dodge all the time. That's an important difference. What can you do while dodging, though? Dropping mines, hoping you don't nuke yourself due to a CD?
Matter of factly, any other ship class doesn't draw a fight into hours.
RE: Can we please change the snub changes back? - Backo - 01-21-2017
The only real difference is that fighters can dodge when piled upon. Any other ship class just gets destroyed in seconds. Nobody stops you from trying to fight while everyone is on you. You'll just die faster just like how battleships die in 20-30 seconds when the enemy armada focuses them.