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+--- Thread: Placing a Bounty. (/showthread.php?tid=15807)
Placing a Bounty. - Drake - 01-31-2009
Not a liar, just an exaggerator. If you left the server 3 months ago, that's because you chose to, not because you were forced out by indie BHG. I was here 3 months ago, and the only place which gets regularly ganked by BHG capships is/was NY, Sigma-13, and the Omicrons. There are lots of other places to pirate, and pirating is pretty easy in a gunboat. I see lots of successful pirates around, in all sorts of ships, who don't seem to have any problem with constant BHG attacks (capships or otherwise). Saying you were unable to play your character without getting constantly BHG-raped is bull (there, I didn't say hogwash), and is frankly just whining. There are lots of capships out there who just want to go on a killing spree... And there are at least as many indie pirate capships out there who want to do nothing more than kill any lawful (including/especially Hunters) they encounter. And they don't even need a bounty to do it 'legally'.
You play a pirate, so obviously you'll have more poor encounters with the BHG capwhores than unlawful capwhores, but don't go and blame the capwhore problem on just one faction, it's a server-wide problem and all characters, lawful and unlawful, encounters it with some regularity. As I mentioned earlier, BHG capwhores (and BHG characters in general) are already far more limited than any of the unlawful capwhores. Without blanket bounties (which are completely in line with canon RP, that's the reason why NPC Hunters fight NPC unlawfuls) the BHG would be a completely pointless faction outside the Omicrons (where they're at war with the Order and hunt nomads). There just aren't enough non-blanket bounties to go around, and Hunters have to compete with Mercenaries and Freelancers for those (who can also take unlawful bounties).
Placing a Bounty. - Baltar - 02-01-2009
' Wrote:Not a liar, just an exaggerator. If you left the server 3 months ago, that's because you chose to, not because you were forced out by indie BHG. I was here 3 months ago, and the only place which gets regularly ganked by BHG capships is/was NY, Sigma-13, and the Omicrons. There are lots of other places to pirate, and pirating is pretty easy in a gunboat. I see lots of successful pirates around, in all sorts of ships, who don't seem to have any problem with constant BHG attacks (capships or otherwise). Saying you were unable to play your character without getting constantly BHG-raped is bull (there, I didn't say hogwash), and is frankly just whining. There are lots of capships out there who just want to go on a killing spree... And there are at least as many indie pirate capships out there who want to do nothing more than kill any lawful (including/especially Hunters) they encounter. And they don't even need a bounty to do it 'legally'.
GEEZ MAN ... do you gotta be that way? I never said I "left" the server 3 months ago. I said I haven't pirated in 3 months. There's a difference. My pirate has been out of Sigma 13 for 3 months and has recently returned. That does not mean I "left" the server. And YES ... I was forced out because too many BHG caps were ganking everything in sight. Just because you did not experience this does not mean I did not. And please note the highlighted portion of your quote. That's my point. Sigma 13 (where I was active and where I got run off from) is precisely what I was talking about.
Now quit calling me a liar ... and quit freaking flaming me. "Bull" and "hogwash" ... same thing, different word. Quit calling me a "whiner" ... that term is over-used and only tells me that you've got no response other than to call someone a name. Drop those terms and debate the issue.
Pirates cannot pirate in caps. Gunboats are the largest they can pirate in and are fairly vulnerable. And I'm not one of those pirates you speak of ... I've been here a long time (very long time) and have been on the receiving end of ganking by BHG and other caps. And I don't mind being hunted for actively pirating. So don't go there. When I pirate ... I pirate trade vessels. I do NOT engage lawful vessels out of the blue ... not even remotely interested in it ... so do NOT put me in that category. But if you wanna get into that discussion ... create a new anti-pirate thread ... there are plenty of them as it is already. This discussion is about "Placing a Bounty."
Quote:You play a pirate, so obviously you'll have more poor encounters with the BHG capwhores than unlawful capwhores, but don't go and blame the capwhore problem on just one faction, it's a server-wide problem and all characters, lawful and unlawful, encounters it with some regularity. As I mentioned earlier, BHG capwhores (and BHG characters in general) are already far more limited than any of the unlawful capwhores. Without blanket bounties (which are completely in line with canon RP, that's the reason why NPC Hunters fight NPC unlawfuls) the BHG would be a completely pointless faction outside the Omicrons (where they're at war with the Order and hunt nomads). There just aren't enough non-blanket bounties to go around, and Hunters have to compete with Mercenaries and Freelancers for those (who can also take unlawful bounties).
Not really ... I should have more encounters with traders than with BHG. But as it was 3 months ago ... I came into contact with more BHG than traders.
Yes there are a lot of capwhores out there. But this discussion is about bounties ... not capwhores. I've been arguing against generic bounties ... capwhoring is a different discussion.
BHG ZoI ... glad you bring this into the discussion. The BHG NPC's are predominantly in the Omicrons (and quite a few within the houses). So ... if you wanna talk about "canon RP" ... lets discuss where the BHG should be limited to. I've never EVER seen a BHG NPC in Sigma 13.
NOW ... I'm done discussing the generic / specific bounty issue since I've noticed the admins are taking an active role in making sure there's no PVP-abuse with regard to collection of such bounties. That being said ... I'd appreciate an apology for calling me a liar.
Placing a Bounty. - Drake - 02-01-2009
Not a liar, because I'm sure you believe what you said, I was just pointing out that what you said/believe was hogwash.
BHG ZoI has already been officially decided as just about everywhere, and the NPCs are in the Sigmas, though perhaps not S-13, they are in surrounding systems.
The discussion is blanket bounties, not bounties in general, and not the BHG or their capships ganking you or anyone else. Sigma-13 is a hive of OORPness, worse in the past than it is now, and whether or not you get attacked by BHG capships in Sigmas-13 or anywhere else has absolutely no bearing on the discussion, since they aren't allowed to collect on the bounties anyway.
Sigma-13 is the middle of the most popular trade route in the game, therefor it attracts a lot of pirates, who attract a lot of Hunters, both capwhores and otherwise. If you were continually getting attacked by BHG capital ships in S-13, then it's your own fault for staying in such a hive of scum and villainy (and not the good kind). There are plenty of other places to pirate without so many morons around, so try somewhere else rather than trying to say that you haven't been able to pirate in 3 months and use it as reasoning to oppose blanket bounties.
Placing a Bounty. - Baltar - 02-01-2009
' Wrote:Not a liar, because I'm sure you believe what you said, I was just pointing out that what you said/believe was hogwash.
Are you going to continue with this indefinitely? Or are you going to stop calling me a liar. "Hogwash" is the same as "liar." If you continue calling me a liar, I'll have to bring this to the admins. I don't care if you "believe me" or not. If you have no evidence to contradict my statement ... you have no case. DROP IT and cease calling me a liar.
Quote:BHG ZoI has already been officially decided as just about everywhere, and the NPCs are in the Sigmas, though perhaps not S-13, they are in surrounding systems.
I really don't care where they go ... but they have no ZoI. Pirates have no ZoI ... but they have no boundaries either. At least you acknowledge my statements regarding Sigma 13.
Quote:The discussion is blanket bounties, not bounties in general, and not the BHG or their capships ganking you or anyone else. Sigma-13 is a hive of OORPness, worse in the past than it is now, and whether or not you get attacked by BHG capships in Sigmas-13 or anywhere else has absolutely no bearing on the discussion, since they aren't allowed to collect on the bounties anyway.
*HEADDESK HEADDESK HEADDESK* More context please ... I said "generic" bounties ... not "bounties in general." I'm arguing against "generic" as opposed to "specific." Please click on the terms to find a definition. Generic (aka blanket) being against anyone of the pirate class ... specific being against one particular pirate (by name as in against Black.Pearl) or a particular sect of pirates (as in against the LR). Can you comprehend the difference?
Quote:Sigma-13 is the middle of the most popular trade route in the game, therefor it attracts a lot of pirates, who attract a lot of Hunters, both capwhores and otherwise. If you were continually getting attacked by BHG capital ships in S-13, then it's your own fault for staying in such a hive of scum and villainy (and not the good kind). There are plenty of other places to pirate without so many morons around, so try somewhere else rather than trying to say that you haven't been able to pirate in 3 months and use it as reasoning to oppose blanket bounties.
Ok ... you're about to earn yourself an "ignore" from me. You are not even paying attention to what I have to say. You're railroading me and calling me a liar at every turn. You know absolutely NOTHING about me and know even LESS about my characters. I'm tired of your forum insults (please note Rule #4 <-- click link). I'm done with you.
Placing a Bounty. - Drake - 02-01-2009
' Wrote:Are you going to continue with this indefinitely? Or are you going to stop calling me a liar. "Hogwash" is the same as "liar." If you continue calling me a liar, I'll have to bring this to the admins. I don't care if you "believe me" or not. If you have no evidence to contradict my statement ... you have no case. DROP IT and cease calling me a liar.Not calling you a liar, since it's a matter of opinion. You may believe you were forced to stop pirating by BHG capships, but I consider that to be absurd. You would only be a liar if you knew that wasn't the reason you stopped pirating, but claimed it was anyway, but I don't believe that. You can report it to the Admins if you wish, but since all that either of us are doing is expressing differing opinions I don't think it would come to much.
Quote:I really don't care where they go ... but they have no ZoI. Pirates have no ZoI ... but they have no boundaries either. At least you acknowledge my statements regarding Sigma 13.ZoI has come to mean anywhere a faction can operate, so that's what I was referring to. Hunters are allowed to operate just about everywhere, so that's what most people consider to be their 'ZoI'.
Quote:*HEADDESK HEADDESK HEADDESK* More context please ... I said "generic" bounties ... not "bounties in general." I'm arguing against "generic" as opposed to "specific." Please click on the terms to find a definition. Generic (aka blanket) being against anyone of the pirate class ... specific being against one particular pirate (by name as in against Black.Pearl) or a particular sect of pirates (as in against the LR). Can you comprehend the difference?Well, I didn't pick up on the difference, but even so I disagree. Generic pirates are no safer to have around than any pirate faction, and the ID system makes it very clear what everyone is, even if in-RP they would prefer it to be otherwise. If you have a generic Pirate ID, you are a pirate, you prey on traders and other lawfuls, otherwise you'd have a Mercenary or Freelancer or whatever ID.
Quote:Ok ... you're about to earn yourself an "ignore" from me. You are not even paying attention to what I have to say. You're railroading me and calling me a liar at every turn. You know absolutely NOTHING about me and know even LESS about my characters. I'm tired of your forum insults (please note Rule #4 <-- click link). I'm done with you.If you don't want people drawing conclusions about you based on comments you make or things you bring up, then don't bring them up, especially when they have no bearing on the topic of the discussion. You've mentioned being overly targeted by BHG, specifically capships, which you say caused you to stop pirating for the past 3 months. You also mentioned that the majority of these problems were happening in Sigma-13. Conclusion: You used to try pirating primarily in/around Sigma-13, were constantly assaulted by BHG capships, so you decided to quit pirating rather than trying another location. You seemed to have drawn the conclusion that either A. there's nowhere else worth pirating, or B. that the BHG capship problem runs rampant over the whole server, or C. both. And you brought it into the discussion, despite the fact that BHG capwhores who break the rules (attacking without a bounty which allows capships) have nothing to do with blanket bounties, generic, specific, or otherwise.
Block me if you'd like.
Placing a Bounty. - Baltar - 02-01-2009
' Wrote:Not calling you a liar, since it's a matter of opinion. You may believe you were forced to stop pirating by BHG capships, but I consider that to be absurd. You would only be a liar if you knew that wasn't the reason you stopped pirating, but claimed it was anyway, but I don't believe that. You can report it to the Admins if you wish, but since all that either of us are doing is expressing differing opinions I don't think it would come to much.
We're not talking about opinion. We're talking about why I left Sigma 13. If I say I left because I was being harassed by BHG caps ... that's why I left. But you're not listening so why bother. Quit calling me a liar.
Quote:ZoI has come to mean anywhere a faction can operate, so that's what I was referring to. Hunters are allowed to operate just about everywhere, so that's what most people consider to be their 'ZoI'.
ZoI = Zone of Influence. Hunters have no influence. And if Liberty Rogues declared their ZoI is all of Liberty you'd have all of the Liberty lawfuls telling you otherwise. Its not where you operate ... its where you have influence and control. Hunters don't control anything.
Quote:Well, I didn't pick up on the difference, but even so I disagree. Generic pirates are no safer to have around than any pirate faction, and the ID system makes it very clear what everyone is, even if in-RP they would prefer it to be otherwise. If you have a generic Pirate ID, you are a pirate, you prey on traders and other lawfuls, otherwise you'd have a Mercenary or Freelancer or whatever ID.
*Sigh* ... ok ... let me try this again. First ... do you understand English grammar and context? If so, then you'll understand that the term "generic" is used in relation with the word "bounty." The word "generic" describes the type of bounty. I never used the word "generic" to mean "generic pirate." So ... when I say "generic bounties" I'm talking about those bounties that have no specific target. This debate is about "generic" and "specific" BOUNTIES ... it has nothing to do with the type of pirate you are.
Quote:If you don't want people drawing conclusions about you based on comments you make or things you bring up, then don't bring them up, especially when they have no bearing on the topic of the discussion. You've mentioned being overly targeted by BHG, specifically capships, which you say caused you to stop pirating for the past 3 months. You also mentioned that the majority of these problems were happening in Sigma-13. Conclusion: You used to try pirating primarily in/around Sigma-13, were constantly assaulted by BHG capships, so you decided to quit pirating rather than trying another location. You seemed to have drawn the conclusion that either A. there's nowhere else worth pirating, or B. that the BHG capship problem runs rampant over the whole server, or C. both. And you brought it into the discussion, despite the fact that BHG capwhores who break the rules (attacking without a bounty which allows capships) have nothing to do with blanket bounties, generic, specific, or otherwise.
Wrong ... its called debate and discussion. There are many others in this thread that I've been speaking with that have not called me names. If you disagree with me ... then discuss your point of view ... but don't call me a liar just because you disagree. Calling me a liar because you disagree tells me you have no argument ... nothing to provide to the discussion. So ... if you wanna discuss this issue ... then discuss the ISSUE. I ... me ... I'm not the issue here. So stop calling me a liar.
My bearing is that I have presented my viewpoint on this discussion. I'm waiting for you to provide your side. But the only thing you can key up on is name calling. My viewpoint has to do with the bounties ... don't care who's collecting on the bounties ... its about those that are posting the bounties. And because those who post these bounties encourage PVP whores in capships to come after me without consideration of role play ... yes ... those that post the bounties need to be mindful of that.
Its about those that POST the bounty ... not about those that collect the bounty.
Quote:Block me if you'd like.
You're very close.
Placing a Bounty. - Drake - 02-01-2009
Don't feel like quoting anymore, so I'll just answer.
Never called you a liar, stop saying I did. I said the supposed reason why you haven't pirated for the past 3 months is absurd, which it is. You get capwhored when hanging out in Sigma-13, so you stop pirating altogether because of it, that's a bit of an overreaction.
ZoI has also come to mean 'Zone of Interest' and, like I said, is used by many/most people to represent any area where a particular faction can operate with regularity, not just where the faction has 'control'.
All blanket bounties have no specific target, unless you're talking about an entire NPC faction(s) as a specific target. Either way, I support blanket bounties which include 'x, y and z factions, and anyone with a pirate ID'. They're all an equal threat to the traders/civilians/lawfuls of the area, and it's no more possible for a generic pirate to pretend to not be a pirate than it is for a Outcast to pretend to not be an Outcast. There's no much room for subtlety or sneakiness in Freelancer, you're either 'lawful' or 'unlawful' or 'merc/freelancer'.
I've already provided my side, without calling you a liar.
None of the blanket bounties, whether specifically directed at a faction(s) or generically directed at all pirates, encourage PVP whores in capships to kill you, they do that in spite of the bounties, and it's sanctionable. You should be content with the fact that BHG players can't just KoS any unlawful (which is what the NPCs do), despite most of the unlawfuls appearing listed as 'enemies' in the faction information (BHG are the only faction which isn't allowed to engage their 'enemies' at will in any kind of ship they'd like). Unlawfuls are certainly still allowed to engage the BHG at will, and many (the majority?) do unless out-gunned.
Do the BHG need even more restrictions placed on them? I think not. They already have plenty of red tape, what with having to keep track of bounties, take screenshots of the enemy tag/ID, kill message, making sure those screenshots make it obvious what system(s) it was in, proper ship size (which in some cases is limited to fighters/bombers when a merc or freelancer going after the same bounty is allowed a gunboat), etc. They're more work to play than any other faction on the server... Except for random PVP capwhores, but they can be sanctioned now (though only random BHG capwhores can be sanctioned, not random pirate capwhores). Even if a blanket bounty allowed Hunter battleships to go after Mk. I light fighters, they'd still have to do all the screenshotting and uploading and 'paperwork' to make it legit, which is far for effort than a random PVP-whore will be willing to do.
Placing a Bounty. - Baltar - 02-01-2009
@ Drake: The ONLY reason I'm ticked off at you is for saying, implying, or in other terms indicated that I'm a liar. I don't care what you have to say about this topic anymore because you have insulted me to no end. Nothing you say will be worth its weight in salt to me until you reverse your tone. Its not what you have said regarding this topic that annoys me ... its the fact you've resorted to making me out to be a liar. Fix this and we can go on about our discussion like rational people.
Placing a Bounty. - Athenian - 02-01-2009
I think this discussion has...um...well....changed significantly...so let's call it a day.