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+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Improve Presentation of Discovery's Rules (/showthread.php?tid=158145)
RE: Rules Presentation - Karlotta - 04-28-2018
(04-28-2018, 12:50 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Reducing the number of unnecessary words (and the people who wrote rules and IDs used a LOT of unnecessary words) is a much better way to make something easier to read an understand, and is a standard that every editor follows. A lot of things in discovery were written by people (sometimes rather young people) who obviously don't have very good writing and editing skills. Changing the font size to make something LOOK as if its shorter, or using a lot of unnecessary words to make it LOOK as if there is also a lot of work and content in the text, is the kind of thing that high school teachers cringe at when their students do it. And it will also make the more mature readers cringe when they see it being done in discovery.
(04-28-2018, 12:58 PM)Karlotta Wrote: I understand that, but you shouldn't make it needlessly difficult for others who still have to learn to walk. Also try to empathize with people who don't want study a text that's poorly written and contains many things that are totally obsolete. Improving the writing style and wording without changing the meaning, and removing redundant and obsolete things doesn't require vets to re-learn anything.
Quoted for great truth and great bump.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Ash - 04-28-2018
So i'm going to be that guy and come out and say it.
Usually I steer clear of responding to the majority of what you write as it's highly toxic in nature. This is because you only read what is written to you with the sole intent to reply, not to understand. But with your repeatative bumping and insatiable thirst for attention i'll oblige by trying to shed some light on a few things that may help explain the frustrating situation you find yourself in.
I cannot speak for the admins or the dev team but, like them, I have borne witness to the plethora of complaints you have made about numerous aspects of the mod, it's administration and the community. In the time you have re-joined us, 19 out of your 32 threads have have been heavily weighted with criticism and suggestions of ways you think things could be run better. You may think that this is being helpful but in truth, it's a grind to see that no matter how much work is being put in by the dev and admin teams, it will never be enough to appease you. I can imagine how frustrating it must be for mod management to be regularly exposed to your relentless call outs to face whatever flaws you state they have.
So it's only fair that you are criticised you for yours.
Firstly I applaud you for pointing out some of Discovery's underlying issues. It's good to lend a hand to improving the mod, it's a huge task to stay on top of things and you have been productive. Credit where credit is due. Though evidently you don't play well with others; or at least with people who aren't waving your flag. Imposing your ideas in absence of any other suggestion YOU deem worthy is not helping. It no doubt has an invigorating affect on your ego but does little to take the mod in a direction the majority of us agree with.
You have a great way of telling people how to do their job despite having never done it before.
(04-18-2018, 12:04 AM)Karlotta Wrote: 2. Second suggestion: If you aren't going to use threads like this anymore, don't just close them, but delete them completely. Or at LEAST provide a link to the "new system" where you mention a "new system". There are loads and loads of obsolete threads like that one, which just clutter up he forum, confuse, and annoy.
The way you talk to people who do not agree with you is, in lack of a word that wouldn't be interpreted as provocative, degrading.
(03-16-2018, 01:35 AM)Karlotta Wrote: I do sometimes get the impression that I'm speaking Chinese to some people, but after re-reading my posts and reading the posts of people who don't seem to understand anything I say, it becomes clear that problem does not come from a language barrier on my side.
(03-16-2018, 01:35 AM)Karlotta Wrote: I believe your English may not only be a problem for making yourself understood, but also for understanding what I said. That and that you also don't seem to think about the implications and the larger context of what I say, only about small parts of the post that caught your attention or that you understood while not understanding other parts.
(03-15-2018, 03:49 PM)Karlotta Wrote: If you find that too difficult after reading it only one time, try reading it several times before answering. Once you've done that, I'll be happy to address any remaining comments and questions point by point.
As a helper, I'd like to borrow the phrase of a great american thinker, and point out that the proposed solution is for the game mechanics and community that we have, not for the game mechanics and community that we wish for.
p.s: This reminds me... how are your infinitesimally superior and more elaborate plans for a 3D Sirius coming along? It's already mid-march. You can answer that in a more appropriate thread.
You treat people who agree with you quite differently.
(03-19-2018, 05:23 PM)Karlotta Wrote:(03-19-2018, 04:57 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: I support most of it, and could live with all of it.
Finally some people who know how to read.
You hold your written word in very high regard. You insist that people pour over the pages and pages of material you write and then criticise them for not doing so whether they read it or not. You talk about your threads like they should be at the top of the priority list and bring them up at every given opportunity.
(04-04-2018, 04:38 PM)Karlotta Wrote: You left out the part where they already got a bug free help system from someone else before.
(02-27-2018, 02:10 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Sounds good. Also finally do this please.
(03-31-2018, 10:28 PM)Karlotta Wrote:(03-31-2018, 10:25 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Why was Gallia put into a separate sector map?
No seriously... why?
And why was this prioritized over other things?
(04-10-2018, 10:54 AM)Karlotta Wrote: How much longer will the admins need to discuss this internally?
(04-26-2018, 12:14 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Maybe an admin would like to tell me why they aren't answering?
(02-16-2018, 04:56 AM)Karlotta Wrote: So rules below have been re-ordered, merged, and reworded to make them shorter and easier grasp. They are compact enough to put identical version on the forum and into and two infocards (One with rules 1-3 and the other 4-7) in the ingame Help System.
(03-15-2018, 06:49 PM)Karlotta Wrote: But still you manage to not see it as such. Because 1 more rule. (after I already reduced the number of words in the rules from 4510 to 2645 btw)
Then you pit yourself against everyone if you so much as whiff a contrasting opinion. Some would say you have a messiah complex and you believe you are here to fix all the problems of Discovery. This is made believable still when you regard a proudly displayed memento in your signature.
Except the truth is that aspects of the mod develop as a conglomeration of ideas, not just one.
Report me, sanction me, or unload that passive aggressive autocannon we've all become acquainted with. I've tried to put this together in a civilised manner. But quite frankly, i'm not all to concerned with how it may be received. Because as i'm sure you'll agree, EVERYONE should be held to account for their actions.
So give the admins, and the devs, and the rest of us, a break.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Karlotta - 04-29-2018
Thank you for your post. Even if it's a smear consisting of selective quote-mining mixed with a volley of ad hominems, I think it helps move forward by shining a light on the underlying cause of the unbelievable sloth and blockades when it comes to certain things that have been sorely needed for over 10 years now.
I'm not going to answer to everyone of the quotes you selected for their aggressive sound, because anyone can follow the links and see the context in which they were made and see that they were in fact responses to someone talking about language barriers, to equally or more aggressive posts, to people who repeatedly misrepresented what I said, to people who were already talking about the very subject that I "incessantly bring up" (you, in particular), necessary reminders of something that was already said multiple times before, and that you purposely left previous parts of the quotes out to make them look more aggressive.
I'm also not going to give specific counter-examples to your accusations of "not working well with others", "pitting myself against other opinions", or allegedly "not accepting that the mod is a conglomeration of ideas", because anyone can find them in my post history, and if they think about it one second, see that I have been asking for and incorporating other people's opinions all throughout my work on the help system and the rules. And I'm not going to mention all the examples where the people you defend have done exactly what you accused me of.
Instead, lets talk about the thing you (and others) have brought up, which is the real reason why ideas, contributions, and improvements (not only mine) have been blockaded over the years. Lets talk about what it's really about.
It' about egos.
I never denied I have one, and honestly I feel kind of sorry for those who can't identify the quote in my sig (and some other thing's I've posted) as self-irony. It also says something about them.
To quote some bloke who was probably quoting someone else:
"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's sister's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"
So thanks to your post, I'm going to say it straight.
The reason why many of discovery's resident "bigshots" (someone else called them "local chieftains") block ideas, contributions, and improvements that come from people who aren't their dedicated underlings or part of their in-group, is because their egos simply can't stand the fact that someone else may do better than them.
Ash Wrote:You have a great way of telling people how to do their job despite having never done it before.
Well that's exactly the thing, Ash. I HAVE done their job. I've polished up the rules that were a mess, and I've made a help system that was sorely needed. While the entire population of residents bigshots was unable to do it for frikkin 10 years.
And yes, absolutely, I have an ego. Just don't pretend the opposition against an unambiguous improvement isn't coming from the egos of those who oppose it.
So I would kindly like to ask that you, and those who can't see the logs in their own eyes, to give people who want readable, accessible, and up to date rules (and the server that needs those people) a break.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Ash - 04-29-2018
(04-29-2018, 12:17 PM)Karlotta Wrote: The reason why discovery's resident "bigshots" (someone else called them "local chieftains") block ideas, contributions, and improvements that come from people who aren't their dedicated underlings or part of their in-group, is because their egos simply can't stand the fact that someone else may do better than them.
Ash Wrote:You have a great way of telling people how to do their job despite having never done it before.
Well that's exactly the thing, Ash. I HAVE done their job. I've polished up the rules that were a mess, and I've made a help system that was sorely needed. While the entire population of residents bigshots was unable to do it for frikkin 10 years.
And yes, absolutely, I have an ego. Just don't pretend the opposition against something that is an unambiguous improvement isn't coming from the egos of those who oppose it.
So I would kindly like to ask that you, and those who can't see the logs in their own eyes, to give people (and the server that needs those people) who want readable, accessible, and up to date rules a break.
Thanks for that, you've very clearly reinforced the point I was trying to make about your messiah/superiority complex. At least we're clear on that. Humility, it would seem, is certainly not in your repertoire.
After everything, why would someone you have heavily criticised and harassed want to help you advance your ideas? The answer to that question may help you understand why people in management are so resilient to engage with you. You were given a fresh start when your membership was reinstated, and yet you've done a pretty good job of p*ssing off alot of people. Now you're ignored. Doesn't that tell you something?
I'm not denying you have the ability to do good work karlotta, only pointing out that you demand a shining star every time you pull something out of the bag. Then you parade around the forums like you're a godsend. You may be trying to do good but you're not Jesus Christ, he was much more subtle about it.
I've helped you refine your work in the past because I too was led to believe it was for the betterment of the mod. But with every post you make the more it becomes blatantly clear that the primary beneficiary of everything you've written is your ego. You're not the first big ego to strut through the community and you certainly won't be the last. The exception with you is that you project your ego and indeed your jealousy onto just about anyone who may disagree with you. That was the case with laz, and has consistently been the case with the admins and devs.
There is a hard truth you need to get your head and your ego around which is that yes, you too can have bad ideas. Dozens of people have tried to criticise you constructively, but you respond by steamrolling them and charge off with the idea anyway. Then you throw your toys out of the pram when it's getting rebuked in it's final stages and blame the admins or devs for being jealous that they didn't come up with it first.
You throw out hostility in every direction and then blame the world for avoiding you.
I implore you to have the wisdom to see that the admin and dev team are not your rivals unless you make them to be. You have an extraordinary drive and ambition to see the mod considerably improved; this could be realised If you'd only swallow your pride and stop antagonising everyone.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Karlotta - 04-29-2018
And here comes the next volley of ad hominems, strawmen, appeals to authority, false equivalences, misrepresentations, and accusations fabricated out of thin air, concluded with the claim that I'm the one who is being antagonizing. There has been, if you haven't noticed, quite a lot of antagonizing going on in discovery, also unrelated to me, and related to the people you say I'm antagonizing.
And everything but an acceptance of everything you say is construed as me being "beyond reach" of your kind attempt at helping me realize that something you already said was a good idea, that you or anyone else can't point out what is bad about it, is in fact a bad idea.
If people get pissed off because someone else was able to do what they weren't, that's on them. I understand that it's a more or less common reaction (especially in children and youngsters), but it's something that people should learn to control so they don't block progress. There's a clear cut difference in an ego sparking something positive, and an ego blocking something positive.
Interesting that you bring up Laz and accuse me of projecting myself onto him, while he's the one who posts angel wings everywhere he goes and you call me out for having a messiah complex and pretending I'm a godsend.
It's almost as if your agenda isn't really "constructive criticism" at all, but rather to start a poop-slinging contest that can later be quote-mined as evidence of me being terribly antagonistic, when someone wants to kill something they have no arguments but logical fallacies against. The later are what separates "constructive criticism" from poop-torpedos intended to sink something that you can't sink by any other means.
I've asked for constructive criticism, and implemented it, countless times, including yours. Your last two posts were no such thing.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Sombs - 04-29-2018
I think we can all agree that everyone in this community has a certain reputation for certain things they have done, ignore those we don't like and enjoy ourselves with those we do, and end this?
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Karlotta - 04-29-2018
If he needs to get it out of his system, I don't mind if he does. I'd rather he says it out in the open than behind people's backs on skype.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Corile - 04-29-2018
ash's right tbh
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Karlotta - 04-29-2018
Everyone is free to post feedback about my person in the feedback thread in my sig, thanks.
RE: Rules waiting for admin comment - Ash - 04-29-2018
Karlotta
With every word you reinforce what it is i'm trying to point out, and you are too blind to see it.
There is nothing I or the community can do for you.
This feeds back into what I said off the bat that you read what is written to you to reply, not to understand.
Your outright rejection of everything I have fed back to you is evidence of this.
It was not my intention to coax anything out of you, but to try and give you perspective on the way you come across to many people here. But alas, I think you're doomed to be angry at us for the rest of your time here, however long that may be.
And to quote the german philospher Friedrich Nietzsche, because clearly you enjoy the odd proverb:
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal"