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+--- Thread: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. (/showthread.php?tid=159287)
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Darkseid667 - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:44 PM)sindroms Wrote:(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)Darkseid667 Wrote: I completely disagree with the notion that illegal POBs in the mining fields kill the interaction. Quite the oppsite, actually, from my plentiful experience.
The fact that the law enforcers can't patrol the fields 24/7 as stated above should give away what the underlying problem really is. And try to find a miner or transport from morning to early afternoon on a workday at MET.
From a RP perspective it would make much more sense to build short-lived, disposable POBs in the fields especially as a local unlawful faction and that should be provided with corresponding mining bonuses (mining bonuses really don't make much sense) and corresponding ships and selling points.
I therefore +1 for change number 2.
The thread has nothing to do with roleplay laws.
The thread is about putting a quickdok point inside a mining field.
Ergo, the fix where Mining Ships were made undockable.
Well, about that, just declare miners (and maybe transports, too) PVP dead for 2 hours after escape-docking from a fight onto a POB (that really would ruin any one-man mining operation) and allow ships to destroy the illegal POBs in the mining zones without any warning.
PS: If the people who want POBs to be much more expensive get what they want I vote for a corresponding increase in cargo space then, like 300.000 instead of 30.000 units.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Laura C. - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:53 PM)Darkseid667 Wrote: Well, about that, just make miners PVP dead for 2 hours after escape-docking from a fight onto a POB and allow ships to destroy the POB in the field without any warning.
Often there is no fight between miner and intruder, because miner rush to dock at POB the first moment when red contact appears on his scanner. Thus he can´t be PvP dead when the engagement do not even start.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - sindroms - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:57 PM)Laura C. Wrote:(03-21-2018, 12:53 PM)Darkseid667 Wrote: Well, about that, just make miners PVP dead for 2 hours after escape-docking from a fight onto a POB and allow ships to destroy the POB in the field without any warning.
Often there is no fight between miner and intruder, because miner rush to dock at POB the first moment when red contact appears on his scanner. Thus he can´t be PvP dead when the engagement do not even start.
That is a best case scenario.
Usually people dock the moment another player enters the system, which is why tagged piracy-orientated factions are never seen attacking miners in such systems.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - ronillon - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:39 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Actual price can depend on many things, source distance is just one of them, how much you want to pay traders for transporting is another, and thus the price can vary throughout quite a wide range. If we throw all those factors away and consider only what's equal among all bases, the default commodity costs per unit multiplied by the required amount, we get the Cost A column, totalling costs at 1 065 833 Credits. If we consider the location a few of us in the Council decided to chose for a future project, we get the Cost B column, totalling costs at 2 120 933 Credits.
Reinforced Alloy commodity requirement is calculated with the following equation: RA=100+(8000000-400000)/30000.
My calculation does not include the consumed FOW during the process, but it shouldn't be difficult to calculate that, nor should affect these values too significantly.
Either way, it's nowhere around Core upgrade module costs.
-Why are you calculating with 400 Crew when only 200 is needed?
-What traders are you talking about? You only need to transport 1700 units of Crew+FOW+RA. You can very well do that with the construction platform.
-Since initial materials are from all over the Sirius, it does not matter where you build. Crew+FOW+RA you can usually get from 1-2 systems away, so it is not much difference.
-You are right, I forgot to factor, that the base spawns at 400.000HP, so you need 5% less RA.
-You do not need to calculate FOW consumption, because FOW is not consumed in the process. It takes around 45 minutes to repair to full HP. FOW checks are done twice a day at specific times, so it is very easy to avoid that.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Thyrzul - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 01:05 PM)ronillon Wrote: -Why are you calculating with 400 Crew when only 200 is needed?
-What traders are you talking about? You only need to transport 1700 units of Crew+FOW+RA. You can very well do that with the construction platform.
-Since initial materials are from all over the Sirius, it does not matter where you build. Crew+FOW+RA you can usually get from 1-2 systems away, so it is not much difference.
-You are right, I forgot to factor, that the base spawns at 400.000HP, so you need 5% less RA.
-You do not need to calculate FOW consumption, because FOW is not consumed in the process. It takes around 45 minutes to repair to full HP. FOW checks are done twice a day at specific times, so it is very easy to avoid that.
- I've successfully managed to confuse crew requirement with wear and tear damage (200 + 200 x CoreLvl). Minus 200 crew from the requirements now reduced the default cost (A) to 665 833 credits.
- The calculator spreadsheet i made counts for every and all construction operations, and traders are relevant from later on. So is FOW consumption. I forgot these are not that relevant here.
- The calculator spreadsheet i made counts for every and all construction operations, and traders are relevant from later on. So is FOW consumption. I forgot these are not that relevant here.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - ronillon - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: Furthermore, a miner with a POB in the field will never come under fire and thus will never be PVP-dead, since they can dock the moment a red contact appears 15k away from them.
Attacking a POB in order to deny docking by raising the shield multiple times has been sanctioned before.
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: Why should a miner be exempt from player interaction if it is not in their favor? Why should a miner be completely pvp safe? If you want that sort of gameplay, restart a rank <30 miner in Penny.How did you come to this??? How is miner completely PvP safe?
This is like saying Outcasts should not pirate IMG in Tau 23, or Mollys shouldn't hit people in Dublin. That is pure nonsense.
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: This is like saying Outcasts should not pirate IMG in Tau 23, or Mollys shouldn't hit people in Dublin. That is pure nonsense.Yes pure nonsense. I have not said anything like that. Im just saying pirate is likely to be more motivated to hit on transports, than on miners. You can demand much more from a trader. Consequently, if you want traders to come, you let miners mine.
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: Furthermore, a miner with a POB in the field will never come under fire and thus will never be PVP-dead, since they can dock the moment a red contact appears 15k away from them.Mining is pretty boring and repetitive work, you just turn and shoot rocks. There are often NPC pirates flying around, so you often see red contacts. Noticing, that one of them is actually a player can take a moment or two. Not to mention some hide contact list to increase field of view and mining efficiency. Meanwhile the pirate is in cruise and closing fast. And then you have cloaks.
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: Attacking a POB in order to deny docking by raising the shield multiple times has been sanctioned before.I thought we are talking about changing things.
(03-21-2018, 12:58 PM)sindroms Wrote: That is a best case scenario.I guess such people who constantly check player list exist, but you cannot do much with those. They can logout in space and be safe, long before any scanner range can touch him. Or just fly out of the system. That would just take them a bit more time, that is all.
Usually people dock the moment another player enters the system, which is why tagged piracy-orientated factions are never seen attacking miners in such systems.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Thyrzul - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: Attacking a POB in order to deny docking by raising the shield multiple times has been sanctioned before.
So was shooting off transport turrets as a piracy demand being part of unique salvage RP because there is just no other mechanic to represent that, but I don't think bullsh!t sanctions should be considered or agreed with.
I also remember that specific subject, and especially how raising PoB shields with a single shot shouldn't be sanctioned the same way a single CD isn't considered an attack either, popping up in the form of a discussion thread somewhere around here more or less recently. It was also mentioned there that the shield lock feature was pretty much implemented so that pirates can lock their prey out of bases without any damage to the PoB at all.
I also remember that specific subject, and especially how raising PoB shields with a single shot shouldn't be sanctioned the same way a single CD isn't considered an attack either, popping up in the form of a discussion thread somewhere around here more or less recently. It was also mentioned there that the shield lock feature was pretty much implemented so that pirates can lock their prey out of bases without any damage to the PoB at all.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - WesternPeregrine - 03-21-2018
I wonder what would happen if the nearest thing to a mining field wasn't a pob or a npc base, but a tradelane? Miners would have to keep eye on passing traffic, which the lane could suddenly drop a potential customer, or a danger close evildoer.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Laura C. - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)sindroms Wrote: Attacking a POB in order to deny docking by raising the shield multiple times has been sanctioned before.Hmm, since you say this as a former admin while another active admin confirmed exactly otherwise recently...
(03-09-2018, 11:32 PM)Tunicle Wrote: Currently
(03-09-2018, 11:15 PM)Laura C. Wrote: I think it was stated in the past that shooting POB just to raise its shield is not considered as attack because intention is not to destroy the base, but just prevent person from docking.is fine to work with. However circumstances vary, camping to do that, for example, is usually frowned upon.
If chasing someone and a stray shot lands it would be impossible to ascertain intent, however multiple shield raising in succession would suggest intent.
...it seems to me that whatever the view on it is, it should be clearly stated in the rules because community is quite confused and unsure about it.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - LaWey - 03-21-2018
Yet another thread about it. I leave it here - i personally saw how miners was blowed up near of Copper Storage Depot.
You think, if you restrict fast dock in mining field, miners, who dock when see enemy tag in system dont just will went in another dock? Just cannot understand this repeating logic.