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+--- Thread: Missions are not worth it anymore (/showthread.php?tid=164646)
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Bellepheron - 09-22-2018
To Quote Laz stating that few people enjoy trading and that he only knows of 3 people who do. Well Laz you now know another. I Love it.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Antonio - 09-22-2018
(09-22-2018, 03:02 PM)Aaron_Cianci Wrote:(09-22-2018, 02:54 PM)Antonio Wrote: I did argue for them to be nerfed, rightfully so. I can't however impact how they got nerfed, you'll have to consult devs about that. Right now there are 2 viable money making methods in the game - ore trading and missions. Latter was twice as good as the former. If that isn't the simplest way to explain a blatant disbalance, I don't know what is. The only thing I wanted is for them to be equally viable; whether it ends up in buffing trade, only nerfing hotspots for missions or entire rework is not up to me nor do I have an impact on that.
There's one viable method now. You contributed directly to the destruction of the other one, because you thought it was unfair. Which it wasn't. You might have been able to manage $200 million an hour from those missions, but I certainly wasn't. I was lucky to do half that, because I'm not as skilled as you are.
You cannot foist blame off on the developers solely because the way they "fixed" a problem that wasn't really a problem wasn't under your control. You argued for it to be changed, and you got what you wanted. You are a faction leader. You are a loud voice on the server. Your opinion carries weight. Unfortunately, I've seen repeatedly during several discussions that you assume that everyone plays your way, and that everyone works the same way you do. It represents an insensitivity and lack of respect to every other player who doesn't play your way. And now it has had a direct cost to the server and players who don't play your way.
I can only hope that some of these changes are reverted, because I have no interest in sitting around shooting at rocks. My ability or inability to make an income to support my actual game play - which is primarily role play, not PvP - has a direct relationship to whether or not I stick around.
![[Image: 7T35lMt.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/7T35lMt.jpg)
No, you will not try to make yourself look like the victim and blame me in the process because I initiated a change to balance the money making potential between trading and missions. You absolutely cannot say with a serious face that one should make the other completely obsolete by being twice as profitable, regardless of what gets buffed or nerfed. Even if ore trading got buffed to 200m per hour - as much as I disagree with it, it would have been better than what we have at the moment and both methods would be equally viable. Congratulations on missing the point once again.
You can give appropriate feedback to developers that thought this was the right way while people (myself included) are pointing out it wasn't. I didn't "get what I want" but thanks for putting words in my mouth. It's like saying "I wanna change the house I live in" and end up living on the street and then say "oh yeah I got what I wanted - I don't live in the house I lived in before". That's not how logic works. Again, not all missions are problematic but a few hotspots are. It's not just Xi, I can make a test video in Cambridge, Omicron Tau or any other good spot as well and the result will be similar.
I haven't lead a faction since 2017 but unfounded accusations aside, let's clear something up. I did want the missions to be changed and at the very least standardized. Your lack of skill is a null argument here, it's so effortless and can literally be picked up by watching my test video. It's all on you for being incapable enough to maximize a potential everyone else but you can reach. That's the definition of balance. A very similar analogy - if we catered PvP balance towards new players, everyone would fly pre-nerf Coronas, old Sidewinders and other insta hit weapons that remove the skill gap. Balance would be a complete mess because catering for someone who isn't maximizing a potential of something is crazy.
I get you. You were on your high horse, enjoying the overpowered money making potential and you got hit with a nerf and now the whole world is against you and you're looking for someone to blame. The funniest part? Missions are still effortless (a video was shown today that all this change did was prolong the missions because NPC guns still fall off so you have to shoot them with normal guns a bit longer while taking 0 damage) and barely changed overall, and you're ready to turn the world around. Sit down and get off the high horse.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Lythrilux - 09-22-2018
(09-22-2018, 09:53 PM)Antonio Wrote: It's not just Xi, I can make a test video in Cambridge, Omicron Tau or any other good spot as well and the result will be similar.
[...]
Missions are still effortless (a video was shown today that all this change did was prolong the missions because NPC guns still fall off so you have to shoot them with normal guns a bit longer while taking 0 damage) and barely changed overall
[...]
Please make a video for every mission zone and cap combination in the mod. I will gladly loan you a Mako to try anti-Nomad missions in Delta solo. Proper testing, before you make more sweeping general statements based on individual cases.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Greylock - 09-22-2018
(09-22-2018, 04:23 PM)Bellepheron Wrote: To Quote Laz stating that few people enjoy trading and that he only knows of 3 people who do. Well Laz you now know another. I Love it.
I only tolerate it when I have good old Netflix going on another screen.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Kazinsal - 09-22-2018
This was an incorrect attempt at a fix for the situation regarding mission farming and I sincerely apologize for it. I'm pushing a revert to cruiser armour to the repository now and I'm hoping we can hotfix this into the live game sooner rather than later.
The actual issue at hand has been more properly identified and I am leading an effort to find a solution that utilizes either additional time investment in transit or profit sharing in order to maximize profit from missions. In the meantime, please bear with us. I can't even remember the last time we looked at missions from a holistic point of view so this is going to be a major undertaking for the development team.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Enkidu - 09-22-2018
(09-22-2018, 10:38 PM)Kazinsal Wrote: This was an incorrect attempt at a fix for the situation regarding mission farming and I sincerely apologize for it. I'm pushing a revert to cruiser armour to the repository now and I'm hoping we can hotfix this into the live game sooner rather than later.
The actual issue at hand has been more properly identified and I am leading an effort to find a solution that utilizes either additional time investment in transit or profit sharing in order to maximize profit from missions. In the meantime, please bear with us. I can't even remember the last time we looked at missions from a holistic point of view so this is going to be a major undertaking for the development team.
A really smart decision indicative of the quality of the current dev team.
It takes a lot of commitment to first change something controversial, then secondly to realise when something doesn't work and reverse it in accordance to feedback. Keep it up with the experimentalism.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Lythrilux - 09-22-2018
I would suggest the Dev team go around asking leaders or even the community at large for their input and experience on capital ship missions. It's a really varied, diverse aspect of the game, with many possibilities.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Felipe - 09-22-2018
(09-22-2018, 10:38 PM)Kazinsal Wrote: This was an incorrect attempt at a fix for the situation regarding mission farming and I sincerely apologize for it. I'm pushing a revert to cruiser armour to the repository now and I'm hoping we can hotfix this into the live game sooner rather than later.
The actual issue at hand has been more properly identified and I am leading an effort to find a solution that utilizes either additional time investment in transit or profit sharing in order to maximize profit from missions. In the meantime, please bear with us. I can't even remember the last time we looked at missions from a holistic point of view so this is going to be a major undertaking for the development team.
Thats all that can really be asked, and thanks for doing it.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Aaron_Cianci - 09-22-2018
(09-22-2018, 09:53 PM)Antonio Wrote: Things Antonio said
Antonio, I think we will simply have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't appreciate the personal attacks, but since the development team is going to be re-working things, I only hope they find proper balance. I've tried to be respectful in this discussion, and all you can do is call me a victim and point out my inexperience and how I got it wrong that you're a faction leader. None of that changes your status as a veteran, your skill with the game or the weight that your voice carries on Discovery.
I would ask you to consider how you speak to new people who provide ideas and input in the future. I can handle being your punching bag, but not everyone can. And if you treat every new person with ideas or input or suggestions like you have me, then I feel sorry for the people who don't speak up as a result.
My thank you to the developers for reconsidering these changes, and to everyone who's contributed meaningfully to the discussion, one way or the other. It's clear we have a lot of passionate people in the game. And that can be a very good thing.
RE: Missions are not worth it anymore - Thunderer - 09-23-2018
(09-22-2018, 03:41 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(09-22-2018, 03:29 PM)Thunderer Wrote: Why not simply make NPCs not clump together like some do, since some don't? That's the best way to nerf the triple Hurricane mission meta.
We can't change NPC behaviour because it's hardcoded afaik. That's the real crux of the issue. Unfortunately, the other option is to artificially increase the difficulty of missions, but that leads to situations like this. It's why careful, measured, case-by-case changes to missions would be the appropriate course of action.
Crecy NPCs always fly in formation. Scylla NPCs always fly independently. If you can make Scylla NPCs do so, why can't you make Crecy NPCs, too?