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+--- Thread: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically (/showthread.php?tid=189802)
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Kauket - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 04:04 PM)Mímir Wrote:They can. And some still do. Certainly, it was far more frequent before, but it is what it is.(09-22-2021, 04:01 PM)Kauket Wrote:(09-22-2021, 03:59 PM)Mímir Wrote:(09-22-2021, 03:52 PM)Kauket Wrote: If your sole objective is to log in and disrupt others, then that is honestly your loss.
How do you define "disrupt"? And how it is a "loss"?
Is a player roleplaying a Navy pilot "disrupting" anything in-game in a negative way when he is trying to subdue a player roleplaying a pirate?
I don't really understand your take, how do you play this game?
Because there would be more things to do if people didn't brainlessly /1 /2 everything off of the server.
But *nobody* does that.
People who log in to /1 /2 are basically just NPCs. Might as well not delete the ambient NPCS if people want to fight to prove something. Maybe make patrol paths that are challenging but not in the way.
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Mímir - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 04:07 PM)Kauket Wrote:(09-22-2021, 04:04 PM)Mímir Wrote:They can. And some still do. Certainly, it was far more frequent before, but it is what it is.(09-22-2021, 04:01 PM)Kauket Wrote:(09-22-2021, 03:59 PM)Mímir Wrote:(09-22-2021, 03:52 PM)Kauket Wrote: If your sole objective is to log in and disrupt others, then that is honestly your loss.
How do you define "disrupt"? And how it is a "loss"?
Is a player roleplaying a Navy pilot "disrupting" anything in-game in a negative way when he is trying to subdue a player roleplaying a pirate?
I don't really understand your take, how do you play this game?
Because there would be more things to do if people didn't brainlessly /1 /2 everything off of the server.
But *nobody* does that.
People who log in to /1 /2 are basically just NPCs. Might as well not delete the ambient NPCS if people want to fight to prove something. Maybe make patrol paths that are challenging but not in the way.
Well, I played a lot from 2009-2016 and spent an awful lot of time hunting bounties and pewing, and I can't really remember having seen that other than when new players arrive and join in on an ongoing furball.
TBH though I would be happy if a bunch of players joined in just to pew. It generates activity and excitement.
EDIT: We're going wildly off-topic.
EDIT EDIT: Haha, I see that you are Nyx! Do you think perhaps you are assuming things because you think you might remember me?
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Kauket - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 04:16 PM)Mímir Wrote: EDIT EDIT: Haha, I see that you are Nyx! Do you think perhaps you are assuming things because you think you might remember me?
I don't know you or care about you.
NPCs shouldn't be disruptive to activities and should be confined to hubs, or populated zones. BHG npcs are especially awful for their flight AI of doing impossible speed strafes.
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Mímir - 09-22-2021
Well anyhow, you can keep Capital planets secure by plopping down POB's, job done. You don't need NPC's.
Despite this having become some nonsensical debate about evil PVP'ers vs. poor RP'ers, the point still stands that NPC's ruin fights for all sides involved. It's detrimental to player-to-player interaction.
High-level NPC's can be spawned in missions just fine for those that wish to do so, there's no reason to have roaming NPC's at this level and in these numbers.
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - LuckyOne - 09-22-2021
As much as people deny it NPCs are still part of the RP environment of the game. There's nothing less immersive (except maybe Ivan452 going on a full OORP rant) than a swarm of NPCs trying to "attack" a player wielding pea shooters. RP is not only what players type but their actions too. In-RP it's perfectly sensible for a player under attack to move to an area with a bigger presence of friendly forces.
An ideal techical solution would be to somehow figure out how to trigger the "move to waypoint" game state that is currently triggered when a player accepts a mission through the console. If I remember correctly that state makes ambience NPCs turn neutral to the player.
Even then it would be a bit pointless to have NPCs as most of the people would disable them so maybe it should only work if there are multiple players nearby, or simply make it cost credits as yet another money sink.
In a lack of a better solution people just need to learn to deal with it, and systems need to learn to give PVPers zones where they can PvP with minimal interference.
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Tenshi Kuonji - 09-22-2021
Why i want paper NPC's? if you cannot afford in battle in skirmish (NPCs are pretty easily to take them out) then, why you fight close to his patrolling route? better check if a patrol route is where you place so you can fight in other place ... once the battle starts, try get your enemy in a "safer" place for you, NPC's stop following at about 4-5k for small targets and 7-8k for big ones ... so ... easy to get out and fight ... if you make NPC's as Paper then we should remove every armor upgrade in game, and return the classic Police Justice MK 1 with 8/16 damage and Navy with Vengeances being a joke ... but keeping Rheinland with almost 5x that damage "because is a harder place" ...
when we get into lore, we can make Liberty loses fights against every house because they had weaker weapons .... NO!
¬¬
I want NPC's make a small annoying thing....
I belive would be better that if you play with IFF and Normal Faction ID this won't affect you (make inmune to them) but if you are an "Official" then ... we remove the "Official Factions" to leave only NPC's Faction ...
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If you lack a better solution, then, a stupid weak NPC make universe less atractive ... we don't "FEEL" the emotion of not even give the kill to the Enemy but to the NPCs (If there a pay-out that makes usually non-valid) is just awesome ...
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Or you can practice so you get better ...
Imagine a 46th Officer staying close to Alcatraz ... isn't supposed his "presence" is not welcome there? then, Strong NPC's will fit them in a meal ....
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Say thanks NPC's are not using Cruise Disruptors, because they should, if you try to run they shoot at you so you don't run .... that is the only "permissible", if i were the developer lead, i will put again CD's and even make some ships spawn missiles like crazy to put you in a fierce battle ...
............
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Stewgar - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 07:33 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: As much as people deny it NPCs are still part of the RP environment of the game. There's nothing less immersive (except maybe Ivan452 going on a full OORP rant) than a swarm of NPCs trying to "attack" a player wielding pea shooters. RP is not only what players type but their actions too. In-RP it's perfectly sensible for a player under attack to move to an area with a bigger presence of friendly forces.
An ideal techical solution would be to somehow figure out how to trigger the "move to waypoint" game state that is currently triggered when a player accepts a mission through the console. If I remember correctly that state makes ambience NPCs turn neutral to the player.
Even then it would be a bit pointless to have NPCs as most of the people would disable them so maybe it should only work if there are multiple players nearby, or simply make it cost credits as yet another money sink.
In a lack of a better solution people just need to learn to deal with it, and systems need to learn to give PVPers zones where they can PvP with minimal interference.
NPCs are important, and I agree that they are part of the RP and immersion experience. But, there are times where you want to focus on the RP with a hostile or friendly and not have to worry about NPC's. I've done RP where a hostile and I flew to the far corner of a system to talk and, guess what, there are NPCs there.
An alternative is to go to Conn, but then that's an immersion break there. Another alternative is to have NPC's of different levels. Have caps spawn in with stronger NPC's around hub areas and have the paper NPC's spawn in everywhere else?
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Binski - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 08:45 PM)Tenshi Kuonji Wrote: ---
Say thanks NPC's are not using Cruise Disruptors, because they should, if you try to run they shoot at you so you don't run .... that is the only "permissible", if i were the developer lead, i will put again CD's and even make some ships spawn missiles like crazy to put you in a fierce battle ...
............
Until there's a radical change in the average player population, that isn't such a bad idea! Are there still places where GB's and cruiser's just spawn? Like Leeds was for so long with GRN cruiser/GB spawns.
As the OP stated, this place is slimming out all year, and some big and radical change is the only way to bring back people in any serious way. But we have a problem where those in control don't seem to want to put stuff on much anymore, yet don't really want hand it off to those that would. A systematic change is the only way to lift the anchors here, so we know there's a long term point to the effort again! There's too much that we know won't be happening, and the very mode of how the server operates is its own biggest obstacle to a booming space world.
At this point, you can always get a cloak and use that to avoid NPC's for a little while at least. The future of this place might be surviving deadly NPC's to have any significant challenge at all.
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Novascova - 09-22-2021
There are still places where cruisers and gunboats spawn, but we have the specific zones now that have them spawning. It was very difficult to do anything near a hostile station for example West Point because of the constant gunboat spawns that used to be there, as they would follow you constantly which would hinder any RP that might occur as well as the usual PVP situations.
(09-22-2021, 08:45 PM)Tenshi Kuonji Wrote: Say thanks NPC's are not using Cruise Disruptors, because they should, if you try to run they shoot at you so you don't run .... that is the only "permissible", if i were the developer lead, i will put again CD's and even make some ships spawn missiles like crazy to put you in a fierce battle ...
............
About that. NPCs having CDs in vanilla was annoying. Now, adding them to Disco would probably in my opinion be even worse, of course it doesn't matter since CMs are very strong anyway, but that is not the point. NPCs being A) more accurate and B) having the reaction time of a frog means you won't be able to escape even if you tried. This will again hinder interactions between players and any kind of large fight that may occur.
I understand the game should be a bit more immersive but I don't think NPCs with CDs is the best way for that. In any case putting them around restricted areas may work, but normal chokepoints probably not.
RE: Suggestion: Nerf non-mission NPC's drastically - Solo Wing Sagume - 09-22-2021
In my opinion NPC's should only be around certain specialized areas be nasty. Be it secret hideouts or military system, or the "special parts of the Omicrons" where usually you shouldnt be. There I imagine NPC's should all be giving you a hell of a ride. But not around your usual role play hubs. I also disagree with adding CD's again, this will be more annoying than anything. Backwater systems, military systems and war conflict zones yes or maybe some secluded fields with x secre hideout in it, but not on public routes or common rp spots.