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+--- Thread: Junkers... (/showthread.php?tid=21923)
Junkers... - blubba - 06-19-2009
@ Tink. I'm not worried, I just didn't understand the relationships between the law enforcement agencies and the Junkers.
I originally asked about the BH ID in relation to the Junker ID. This was purely because I thought the BH was the most cut and dried of the ID's. I was really looking for the relationship of all law enforcers with Junkers.
I didn't ask regarding any particular 'bounty' and didn't consider it but I must admit, it was interesting to get feedback from other parties involved.
What I wanted to know was what is the Junker ID?
Is it unlawful?
If thats so, they can be shot at out of hand like the Rogues or Hackers by any law enforcer.
Is it lawful?
If thats so, they can't be shot at by any law enforcer unless they are breaking one of the 'Laws of Sirius' or the enforcement officer would be breaking the terms of his ID.
Thats the question.
Now, I understand that the RPers out there see it as a grey area (4 pages and running). I like the idea but unless there is consencus, some people might take this further sadly.
I have said that I can understand a BH taking a Junker out in the Borderworlds...where no-one sees it so he can claim a bounty but infront Manhatten, infront of a policeman?
I refer you to Tinks example of Clowns and Murder on the streets of New York. (A good title for a book)
I preferred that way, saying that if I could provide proof, I would post a lawful bounty on the hunter who commited this heinous crime!
The problem I aluded to was would the other hunter 'play ball'?
Would he run and be hunted for a one off bounty etc?
Would the hunters go after him?
Would police/navy get involved at all if it happened in their ZOI?
Lastly, I said that I have no way of reading ID's. System problems etc. (Something I intend to remedy shortly I hope).
Someone however kindly posted the Junker ID which clearly states that they are "Hostile to House Corporations".
With that last thing in mind, I can easily assume that 'Yes', Junkers are unlawful and therefore can be targeted out of hand by law enforcement agencies. It also precludes me from posting that lawful bounty sadly. :(
Junkers... - Hawkwings - 06-19-2009
So if, instead of FA offering the bounty, KNF/KSP/Samura/Kishiro offered the bounty, there would be no problems?
Junkers... - Benjamin - 06-19-2009
I think it varies. Like because both AFA and Junkers are 'quasi lawful' or whatever. If they're both lawful, then isn't in unlawful to shoot junkers, if they're both unlawful, isn't it an unlawful bounty? Whereas for those lawful factions, if junkers are unlawful then its fine, if they're lawful, then less so. varies on area too. Samura's had a bounty on junkers since forever that no one, to my knowledge, has either collected or complained about.
Junkers... - blubba - 06-19-2009
I don't know. I have no real problems with that bounty anyway.
As for who issues the bounty, I see what your driving at but as Junkers are unlawful, it doesn't really matter.
With regard to the BH working for a Kusari group who are illegal everywhere except Kusari, thats for them to work out.
Maybe this thread should go on to debate that but from what I've read here, no-one seems to have a problem with that either.
I think I'll leave it to others more capable to discuss. My head already hurts...
Junkers... - pipboy - 06-19-2009
I'm not totally sure why people need to have this black and white lawful/unlawful stuff.
The Junkers are neither. Sometimes they are lawful, sometimes they are unlawful. Thus the title "semi-lawful" or "quasi-legal".
The same applies to the Farmer's Alliance and the Hogosha. In fact the Hogosha are even less unlawful than the Farmer's Alliance so if the poster of the bounty needed to be changed it would make more sense for the Hogosha to offer it than the KNF/KSP since the Hogosha are not unlawful everywhere outside of Kusari.
Junkers... - ugliestmoose - 06-19-2009
Yeah I think it would be ok for a Kusari corporation or military/police to put a bounty on Junkers because the Junkers are basically KOS in Kusari. And wouldn't such a bounty only apply to within Kusari's borders anyway? (does the AFA even have the right to put a bounty on ships outside of its ZOI?)
It would be similar to how Liberty has a bounty on Rheinland lawfuls within its space; obviously this doesn't mean than the Rheinland military are criminals, just that in Liberty they are the enemy.
Junkers... - Zelot - 06-19-2009
' Wrote:(does the AFA even have the right to put a bounty on ships outside of its ZOI?)
Why wouldn't we have the right to bounty someone outside our territory? Thats what a bounty is for, we(AFA) dont need a bounty on Junkers inside Kusari, because we just destroy them ourselves, but if we want to somehow motivate them to stop coming, getting to them outside our Zoi, where they feel safe from us is essential. Thus, a bounty inside our Zoi makes no sense, while one outside our Zoi is perfectly legitimate.
Junkers... - pipboy - 06-19-2009
And in that regard I get sick and tired of all this ZOI, and how people shouldn't know anything that happens outside their ZOI. For goodness sake, it's the future. It's called news media. In our current day and age all you have to do is turn on your cell phone and you can find out anything you want to know about any part of the world.
There is no reason what-so-ever that the AFA or any other group for that matter couldn't have some sort of influence outside their own territory. If the AFA puts a bounty on someone's head, what the crap do they care where it's fulfilled?
Junkers... - Grail - 06-19-2009
I agree with junkers being like gypsies. We go places, do things that ordinary pilots dont want or dont dare.
Us being quasi legal or quasi unlawfull dont disturb me. It depends on the eyes of the one looking. I see a Xeno, he looks at me, we know each other and what to do. I see a cop, he sees me, he ask to stop, scan me like he would do to any other pilot, no problem there.
Now, a bounty made by a someones enemie and taken by someone, like the AFA-.:j:. and BHGs, can be really confusing being made outside a ZOI.
For exemple, the corsiars puts a bounty on all outcasts ships, what will BHG do? Claim the bounty? problem is, nowadays things can go bither to the BHG when taking that bounty because so far, yes us being red=enemie, no real problem has been created in RP. But if they keep doing what they did yesterday, i believe that BHG will have lots of problems in the future.
Just a contribution to the debate, hopes it helps.
PS: dont go land on Coorps stations or planets
Junkers... - Benjamin - 06-19-2009
' Wrote:And in that regard I get sick and tired of all this ZOI, and how people shouldn't know anything that happens outside their ZOI. For goodness sake, it's the future. It's called news media. In our current day and age all you have to do is turn on your cell phone and you can find out anything you want to know about any part of the world.Yeah, agreed here definitely. While I'm not condoning people from whatever faction being wherever they want, people are going to know things. Not everyone, obviously, but anyone who wants to can learn pretty much everything i think. I think 'secret systems' and stuff are just untenable. With so many chatty traders flying in every system ever, people will know things even if others are trying to surpress them.
Personally, I have no issue with mercs/freelancers going for the bounty. I just thought that BHG, which is a legal, licensed guild and all that, going after guys who are vaguely criminals, on the behalf of other guys who are vaguely criminals, isn't quite kosher.