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+--- Thread: Unlawful Bases. (/showthread.php?tid=22276)
Unlawful Bases. - tansytansey - 06-26-2009
' Wrote:It may look pretty bad in the screenshot, but the three LPI pulled off when we realized you were heading back to your base.I think the screenshot is pretty clear. You can't possibly say you pulled off when you realised you were that close to Alcatraz. It was practically right in front of you when that screenshot was taken. Unacceptable in my opinion, for fictionalised members. You won't catch LR- members camping lawful bases, and this is just as bad - if not worse than that. How can we possibly explain this in-RP? That three LPI officers found Alcatraz? It just simply doesn't work. Please, in future break off before you get with in scanner range of any of our bases. It's fairplay as well as helping maintain roleplay.
What the vigilantes did I have no idea, I assume they kept up their pursuit, but don't show the beginning without the end. Get the whole story out there. >.>
Oh, and you might want to fix three vigilantes to two vigilantes.
' Wrote:Does being 5-10k from Alcatraz now count as base-camping? I thought base-camping was sitting right outside a base in weapons range and killing people as they undocked. Bearing in mind that the Texas JH is close to Alcatraz, is using it now unacceptable? It might be that people are simply passing Alcatraz on their way to Texas.Yes, I believe it does. They may not be sitting right outside, but they are still with in range to act if a target undocks from the base. And don't tell me that in-RP any unlawfuls would let an enemy sit with in scanner range of their base without sending a wing to despatch of them. Because that's laughable.
But whatever. All I ask for is a little fairplay from your faction and respect for our bases. BHG being outside Rogue bases may not happen often, but you will never see a Rogue outside a BHG base. Anyone who thinks of it will be flying a Bloodhound for a week. Such is the consequence for any LR caught camping a base - and I've not had a single report of it.
Unlawful Bases. - XxStevenLexX - 06-26-2009
So you mean to tell me that we had chased you all the way to Alcatraz? I know for sure that didn't happen, and I had personally never been Alcatraz and thus unaware it was there at all, but as soon as I was told to turn around, I turned around.
Not until this was posted did I even know we were near a base.
I fully understand your reason to be angry, but the base was not in scanner range for me, this may be due to the fact I still have a crap scanner, but the thing has a 6k range. If the base wasn't within 6k there's no way I would be able to see it with my eyes or my scanner.
I don't know if the vigilantes were base camping prior to the start of the fight, but the 3 LPI flew in from New York, so any base camping prior to the chase is something I'm unaware of.
Unlawful Bases. - sovereign - 06-26-2009
' Wrote:So you mean to tell me that we had chased you all the way to Alcatraz? I know for sure that didn't happen, and I had personally never been Alcatraz and thus unaware it was there at all, but as soon as I was told to turn around, I turned around.
Not until this was posted did I even know we were near a base.
I fully understand your reason to be angry, but the base was not in scanner range for me, this may be due to the fact I still have a crap scanner, but the thing has a 6k range. If the base wasn't within 6k there's no way I would be able to see it with my eyes or my scanner.
I don't know if the vigilantes were base camping prior to the start of the fight, but the 3 LPI flew in from New York, so any base camping prior to the chase is something I'm unaware of.
I can vouch for him, they said they were getting too far into the field and I was still about 10k from Alcatraz. I'm still not happy about calling in reinforcements when you already had us outnumbered 2:1 with shiptype advantage, though...
The Vigilantes ended up killing me when I tried to dock with Alcatraz. Quick dock, that is. I was 5m from it when I exploded. I'd appreciate it if the LPI blow the crap out of them the next time they show up in Liberty, or at least tell them to read their IDs. I didn't see an IFF, did you?
As for the XA incident and Athenian's comment, the bit in question was about a screenshot having two XA kissing Alcatraz on their way out. It has since been resolved and will not happen again, but we don't mean to say that "5-10k is base-camping now", more like "if the base can shoot you, be somewhere else- or at least act like it poses a serious threat".
I'd very much appreciate it if a ship within guns range of its faction's base was considered to have successfully run away, or be allowed to decide whether or not to engage in the case of "base camping". BHG and mercenaries are a little exception to the first bit since their livelihood depends on those blue messages, that I can understand- but opposed factions get as much out of a strategic victory whether their opponent's ship is destroyed or not- maybe more, since they "waste" resources repairing it.
Unlawful Bases. - Athenian - 06-26-2009
' Wrote:They may not be sitting right outside, but they are still with in range to act if a target undocks from the base. And don't tell me that in-RP any unlawfuls would let an enemy sit with in scanner range of their base without sending a wing to despatch of them. Because that's laughable.
But whatever. All I ask for is a little fairplay from your faction and respect for our bases. BHG being outside Rogue bases may not happen often, but you will never see a Rogue outside a BHG base. Anyone who thinks of it will be flying a Bloodhound for a week. Such is the consequence for any LR caught camping a base - and I've not had a single report of it.
By that argument, every pirate within that distance of Westpoint (there are many) would be breaking the rules.
You're in a pirate faction, and like it or not, criminals don't get to operate with the same degree of comfort in open daylight as anyone else. "In-RP" arguments serve absolutely no purpose here, because anyone can produce different arguments to back up a particular view on things. "In-RP pirates shouldn't have access to universal armour upgrades. Why? Because that's military grade." This could go and on, and it only ever results in pointless arguments, when in fact there are plenty of rules to direct game-play and establish what is acceptable or not. If they are not sitting right outside attacking you as you emerge, they aren't breaking any rules.
I dont' think coming within 5-10k of an enemy base counts as "disrespect". It depends on who is doing it, why they are doing it, and how thye play it. I don't even think that coming right up to a base should be regarded as breaking any rule. Dabadoru gets attacked frequently by players who demonstate varying degreees of "respect" towards us. I genuinley don't mind it because we have different responses. These ships risk getting a massive swarm of enemies undocking, or, if we think they are only interested in killing and nothing else, silence. Choosing not to play with someone is as clear a message you can give of how you regard their actions. If they stoop to shooting people as they undock, they generally get a smackdown from on high. (although since that first happened, the rule breaking occurs far less often - word gets around)
What exactly counts as fair play? This comes up so many times and is so open to interpretation that it's kind of moot. Too often fair play means "my way". I don't think it's "fair" for me to have to fight an Eagle. I don't think it's fair that a Black Widow does so much damage. I don't think it's fair that I can't have a cd and a razor on my fighter. Is it fair for me to fight against a pirate when I have two to one odds in my favour? What if we two are in sea serpents and he's in a Gunboat? Is it fair if I fight against someone with exceptionally greater PvP skills than me? Fair-play as a concept varies from person to person.
Unlawful Bases. - Bauer - 06-26-2009
How close were they to Alcatraz in that SS? Depending on the answer I may go smack some LPI officers upside the head.
Unlawful Bases. - tansytansey - 06-26-2009
' Wrote:By that argument, every pirate within that distance of Westpoint (there are many) would be breaking the rules.
You're in a pirate faction, and like it or not, criminals don't get to operate with the same degree of comfort in open daylight as anyone else. "In-RP" arguments serve absolutely no purpose here, because anyone can produce different arguments to back up a particular view on things. "In-RP pirates shouldn't have access to universal armour upgrades. Why? Because that's military grade." This could go and on, and it only ever results in pointless arguments, when in fact there are plenty of rules to direct game-play and establish what is acceptable or not. If they are not sitting right outside attacking you as you emerge, they aren't breaking any rules.
I dont' think coming within 5-10k of an enemy base counts as "disrespect". It depends on who is doing it, why they are doing it, and how thye play it. I don't even think that coming right up to a base should be regarded as breaking any rule. Dabadoru gets attacked frequently by players who demonstate varying degreees of "respect" towards us. I genuinley don't mind it because we have different responses. These ships risk getting a massive swarm of enemies undocking, or, if we think they are only interested in killing and nothing else, silence. Choosing not to play with someone is as clear a message you can give of how you regard their actions. If they stoop to shooting people as they undock, they generally get a smackdown from on high. (although since that first happened, the rule breaking occurs far less often - word gets around)
What exactly counts as fair play? This comes up so many times and is so open to interpretation that it's kind of moot. Too often fair play means "my way". I don't think it's "fair" for me to have to fight an Eagle. I don't think it's fair that a Black Widow does so much damage. I don't think it's fair that I can't have a cd and a razor on my fighter. Is it fair for me to fight against a pirate when I have two to one odds in my favour? What if we two are in sea serpents and he's in a Gunboat? Is it fair if I fight against someone with exceptionally greater PvP skills than me? Fair-play as a concept varies from person to person.
Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about independents that operate close to lawful bases. I'm not green, I'm not ignorant, I know it happens. However arguing 'they did it to me, so that makes it okay' is not valid at all. That only leads to an endless cycle of hate and disrespect towards your enemies.
And just because I choose to play as a pirate does that mean I should accept that people treat me like a bad person? It may all be very well in RP, but this is still a game and we are all here to have fun remember. I am not a bad person regardless of my Roleplays.
I'm not familiar with Dabadorus' roleplay because I'm not usually in those parts of Sirius. To my understanding though, it's part of the BHGs roleplay with the Order for that base to be under attack, just like it's the BHGs roleplay to attack Toledo. However, as much as it is roleplay for BHG to hunt criminals, and while there are BHG patrols that approach Buffalo and Alcatraz, none of them make it out alive. If they're not chasing anyone, they shouldn't be there.
When judging fairplay I find it's best not to think "What should others be doing to be fair to me" but instead think "What can I do to be fair to others?"
And for the record, Krakens still do more damage than Blackwidows.
Unlawful Bases. - JakeSG - 06-26-2009
I believe the Black Widow has type advantage over Graviton shields.
I posted something along these lines in the LPI chat. It received some enthusiasm.
'We won't follow them into fields to end their miserable lives, if they won't end up on the same god damned lane half an hour later.'
Yes, it is within Rogue RP to run as soon as lawfuls show. However, if you're back twenty minutes later they're eventually going to snap and follow you until you're dead, buying four hours of absence. Whether this is into the fields or straight back to your base won't matter.
No LPI or LN faction players will be camping your bases without getting kicked in the groin and punched in the nose, be sure of that. However if you keep coming back and they get so sick of you that they follow you, it's your own fault for leading them back to the base. Being lead there by unlawfuls is different from sitting around waiting, and seeing as the former has happened here it is, once more, the fault of the unlawfuls involved.
As for the BHG: They know where your bases are. While it is bad form for them to be sitting around waiting for you to show, it is no more ooRP than unlawfuls being within spitting distance of lawful bases. Yes, you have no control over them, but they can do it, and so can the BHG.
And the XA? They know more about the fields than any other unlawful faction par the LH, I'd imagine. However, if Joe ever found one of them sitting near Alcatraz he'd push them below Starblazer and into a 'Flea.
In reference to my original quote, my suggestion is thus: Try something other than Cali/Alcatraz for once. Texas maybe. Perhaps even as far down as Hudson/Bering. There's also Cortez/Magellan which I'm sure the Hackers wouldn't mind sharing. You could try Colorado/Kepler/Galileo if you don't mind the Xeno presence. And before you say 'We do that already', think. I'm a member of the LR too. I know as well as you that we spend 95% of our piracy time sitting in California waiting for traders, even inactive as I am.
Unlawful Bases. - FooFighter - 06-26-2009
' Wrote:think again....
what happens if we arm each base "to the teeth"? - correct - bases are used to loophole the shieldrunning ( yes, you say that is just and logical - but it harms the gameplay, really )
arm each base to the teeth - keep in mind that is includes your enemies bases, too ( those that wish for it hopefully haven t forgotten that fact )
anyway - if you got actual screens / prove of BHG| violating the RP of a faction seriously - and if you care to have it discussed by the faction, you can PM me the shots and i ll present them to the other guildmasters and i am sure we can find a solution that suits everyone.
really people - making bases powerful enough to eradicate everyone in sight - silly idea. - where shall a good pvp happen then? - in the little spaces left in between the bases? you d be surprised how little space there is.... - you should be glad that basis mostly add "cosmetical" firepower - but sometimes i wish we could have a parallel server to put EVERYTHING in there that the players wish for - and force them to RP there.
Actually, I don't think arming bases so they can actually bring down campers is a bad idea. In-RP, when you attack a enemy base on your own you're going to die. They will swarm you, they will bring out their heavy base-mounted mass drivers or, if you're foolish enough to attack a capital planet, nuke the heck outta you from their planetary defense grid.
People should not fight near each others bases unless they bring a whole battlefleet, in my opinion. Maybe make base defenses destroyable, with respawn rates around a hour or maybe even only each server reset. It wouldn't only screw base campers, it would also contribute a bit to RP, by forcing it upon the lolwutting unlawfuls who think it's alright to use JGs, lanes, spam West Point etc..
And yeah, I have plenty of both lawful, unlawful and neutral chars, and yes, when I fly my unlawfuls I neither use lanes nor gates unless I have a very good reason to do so.
Unlawful Bases. - tansytansey - 06-26-2009
' Wrote:I believe the Black Widow has type advantage over Graviton shields.Krakens and Blackwidows are both Particle. Krakens are still the strongest class 9 weapon available in Sirius (Apart from the Coalitions' and Phantoms' guns, but they're only for one faction each).
And this thread isn't about camping, make no mistake about that. By in large every faction member knows they aren't to camp bases, and lets face it, some independents don't care about fairness but there's nothing we can do about them. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you can't judge an entire faction based on the actions of a few idiotic independents and then punish the entire faction by treating them all poorly. Don't care if you're fed up with them, you should be treating each one on a case by case basis.
I also highly doubt the Xenos have any knowledge of California at all. They have no NPCs there, the closest thing they have is in Penn. But that still doesn't give any of them the right to behave as they please and run amok around our bases, even if they did chase a couple of morons in Gunboats there, even if they were doing us a favour by getting rid of them. You'd be damn sure they'd stir up a fuss if any Liberty Rogue was seen near Ouray. Once again, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Lastly, I won't deny we spend most of our time in California. Personally I have an RP reason behind it, mine and Orins' Rogues are the Cali Girls, and it's where we operate. But I don't see how that has anything to do with this thread, the LPI'll track us down no matter where, and frankly that makes things interesting. That's not my problem either, which leads me to believe you're missing the point of this thread.
Unlawful Bases. - Shagohad - 06-27-2009
I have the same problem with my slaver. I have at least two bombers, three fighters, and maybe one battlecruiser chase me all the way to Niverton and hang out about 4 km away so they don't get destroyed by Niverton's pulse cannons.
The police would not use so many resources just to hunt down one harmless slaver/pirate/annoying PVPtard. It's not very RP-like, it's not logical, and it also makes it not very fun for the criminal party. The cops don't always have to win. There is no law written that the cops HAVE to win. We had the same problem with HL2 RP. The Civil Protection members ALWAYS flagged up on their super elite Overwatch to kill three rebels who only put up anti-Combine propaganda posters.
Here is my point: Don't go after a fly with a damn bazooka and do not follow them into concealing terrain. A nebula would play hell with your sensors, act like it.