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+--- Thread: ]bd[ lore revision (!) (/showthread.php?tid=69922)
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Maelstrom - 12-13-2011
@Curios
Can't disagree with anything in that post. You're opinion is just as important as mine. That's not going to stop me from giving all kinds of examples and reasons in an effort to sway you towards a different view, though. ;-)
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Curios - 12-13-2011
@Maelstrom
Indeed :cool:Same I can tell myself :cool:
Also on the side note - this part of your link made me warmly smile :cool:
Quote:1701- 1703 Incident of the 47 Ronin (made famous in the Kabuki play Chushingura). After 47 ronin kill a daimyō in his Edo headquarters in revenge of their former daimyō's death, they are ordered to commit seppuku. This was an important precedent as it showed that the government now held civil law over the acceptance of military honor.
]bd[ lore revision (!) - casero - 12-13-2011
While I love Japan history, I would like to remember you all, that even when Kusari is based on Japan, and a great part of Kusari is based on the Meiji and Shogunate eras, it's not necesary that Kusari is forced to be exactly like Japan was.
With that in mind, there's no reason for having 1 Liberal Side and 1 Shogun side. I see two groups fighting for power and for sitting their Taisho on the throne. However, there's a big difference along these groups, and that's the civilian support and public aknowledge.
Without discussing who's rightful and who's wrongful, the Dragons are seen as a terrorist/unlawful group trying to skew the government's power.
Now, to answer Fran.
1) Get rid of the Taishogun if you want, replace him with a new leader of some kind.
2) About attacking foreigners or treating them as hostile. It's hard to tell... Assuming you are only speaking for ]bd[ and not all the dragons, then sure, go pacifist with them. However, if Hideyoshi's regime was open minded to foreigners, that doesn't mean you must too. After all, it was hundred years ago, time changes, but anyway, your choise. Even get them to supply you.
However, that will bring up some questions, when independent dragons keep attacking those foreigners, as it's their right to do it, it's in their ID's. How would you play then?
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Ryummel - 12-14-2011
Okay, after reading everything posted here and debating in Skype, I'm posting a rough draft of the (possible) changes. :
1) Removing the Hideyoshi descendant figure. Heterogeneus political stance. Leadership changes, it has changed and it will change, which means that new leaders and HC members could share a slightly different view of ]bd[ modus operandi, diplomacies, etc. Applying these changes while RP'ing a single static char (Taishogun Hideyoshi) would look extremely rare and weird. ]bd[ command would fall under the Shogun (I know, Taishogun = Shogun, but we used to have the latter as the 2iC positions) and the Daimyos as 2iC, positions which can change more fluently.
It will also help promoting a more heterogeneus stance toward political concerns among members, and thus having both conservative and liberal characters. Given this situation, I guess there's no need to go into details about what exact type of government ]bd[ would want. A military oligarchy? A Shogun having more power than the Emperor? A feudal-type government? Most of Dragons have a military past, so anything along those lines wouldn't be a crazy idea, but the immediate concern would be removing -any- kind of corporate influence over the Kusari government, and once that goal has been achieved, then they'll discuss the future type of government (Right now it's Samura, which also happened to set up the plot against Hideyoshi in the Sakura Coup, which adds the extra dose of hatred. But now there will be Kishiro, which didn't take part in that event, but they will still keep the corporate influence started by Samura, the one that Dragons are trying to remove). In other words, it doesn't mean that you couldn't see characters telling you the type of government they would want, it's just that you won't see any official/homogeneus stance from the whole group.
2) Foreigners. From the beginning the intention was never going full-love with them, but definitely not going Farmers-Alliance-mode against them either. In case of foreign shippers, the attitude should be in the lines of "Hey, we need X and Y for our efforts against this corrupt regime, if you don't like it, we don't care and we'll take it by force if needed" instead of the "You baka gaijin coming here to steal our jobs and blabla, give X and Y or we will kill you!". My point is that Dragons shouldn't see foreigners as hostile "because they are foreigners". back to the foreign shippers, they should be looked as neutral(?) entities which can be forced to contribute Dragons' effort by demanding money or cargo, but never enforcing the aggressive anti-gaijin attitude of Farmers (They already fulfill that role, so what's the point of copycats anyway?).
Now about foreign military/pirate groups, let's say Privateers and Outcasts: These groups tend to draw the authorities' attention away from Dragons, harming the already little influence they could have around Kusari. Shooting down succesfully this kind of groups would remind lawfuls -and society- that Dragons should be their main concern, that they're still alive after 500 years and that they'll fight for another 500 if needed. But again, this doesn't have to be the official stance. It's not bad idea that other Dragon characters would shoot them simply because they want to defend Kusari citizens from hostile foreigners.
Now about deals and diplomacies with foreign groups. So far ]bd[ has been dealing with groups with an independent/unlawful nature (aside from BD-GMG alliance): Order|, Junker Congress, IMG|, LH~ and unaffiliated smugglers. Accepting direct support from a foreign House government or any asset tied to them would imply 'bending over' or applying a certain 'balance of power'. On the other hand, it's easier for ]bd[ to set "rules" on those 'independents' who wish to establish diplomatic relationships with them, so these parties acknowledge that Kusari isn't a place where they can roam freely. (Taking Order| as example, their HC should tell ]bd[ about any kind of operations being launched into Kusari space, forbidding the use of capital ships, etc). This way, and as I said at the beginning, Dragons wouldn't look gaijin-lovers, but not full haters either.
Edit: @casero, about the indie matter and after this wall of text, I'd expect most of the playerbase to be aware about deals with official factions, which means that 'attacking' indie foreigners would be still green light (in case of IMG, ]bd[ leave the official tagged alone, but indies are still pirated).
So... thoughts?
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Markus_Janus - 12-14-2011
Actually Fran, this looks almost perfect to me.
I really like the idea that we can allow different views within the faction without the regimented views that groups like the Navy might have.
It leaves the right balance of a directed approach from High command while still allowing for the different mindsets our various characters have.
And I agree with removing any idea of a Taishogun with links to our previous Shogun 500 years ago.
While I have no problem with either a Taishogun or Shogun as our leader, he should be free to die like any other.
]bd[ lore revision (!) - casero - 12-14-2011
' Wrote:Edit: @casero, about the indie matter and after this wall of text, I'd expect most of the playerbase to be aware about deals with official factions, which means that 'attacking' indie foreigners would be still green light (in case of IMG, ]bd[ leave the official tagged alone, but indies are still pirated).
So... thoughts?
As far as no indie gets hurt for shooting down some (let's say) Universal transport taking goods to your stations as result of a deal they made with ]bd[, I'm fine with it.
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Ryummel - 12-15-2011
' Wrote:As far as no indie gets hurt for shooting down some (let's say) Universal transport taking goods to your stations as result of a deal they made with ]bd[, I'm fine with it.As long as that action isn't fueled by any kind of malicious ooRP intentions, I'm fine with it (Doesn't mean I wouldn't just sit and watch, though).
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Pinko - 12-15-2011
I didn't read this thread or anything, but Trent (who I'll assume has an average knowledge of Sirius' politics) mentions the Far Left when he's forced to work with the Blood Dragons, so I'd assume they're some sorts of Socialists in Sirius' imaginative collective.
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Kaghuros - 12-15-2011
' Wrote:I didn't read this thread or anything, but Trent (who I'll assume has an average knowledge of Sirius' politics) mentions the Far Left when he's forced to work with the Blood Dragons, so I'd assume they're some sorts of Socialists in Sirius' imaginative collective.
Ehh, I think he just doesn't get Kusari politics. The difference is probably in how the Blood Dragons aren't corporatist but the Samura backed regime had corporate control of everything. So BDs are more economically leftist in trying to decentralize corporations and make the government more in control of things.
]bd[ lore revision (!) - Pinko - 12-15-2011
' Wrote:Ehh, I think he just doesn't get Kusari politics. The difference is probably in how the Blood Dragons aren't corporatist but the Samura backed regime had corporate control of everything. So BDs are more economically leftist in trying to decentralize corporations and make the government more in control of things.
Considering how Sirius in the future seems to be -extremely- corporative, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that the Blood Dragon's ideal are seen as nearly communistic.