' Wrote:Violation of the Hessian ID. Violation of Bretonian RP, Hessian Bretonian relationship is not such that we'd invite Hessians into battle with us. If they turn up then the best way to do things would have been to actually say "Once this ids done get lost" and co-ordinate efforts in local chat. Grouping is far and away the best way to determine if an alliance is happening as it allows for secret co-ordination. Simply put if they hadn't group[ed then they wouldn't be out in Lost.

' Wrote:I'll just copy and paste what I said in the sanction thread.
/signed

When you're a house that's on the verge of destruction you will do anything to prevent it. They've already done dealings and had help with (as croft said) mollies, kusari exiles, and outcasts. Why not red hessians? In fact, from an outside perspective it doesn't even look like these guys arranged any sort of 'teaming' with the hessians at all. Instead, they just 'showed up' to blow the base to oblivion with them.

But really, the Bretonians know they're about to be steamrolled by Gallia. Why WOULDN'T you try building relations with a group you don't usually interact with in order to fight a common enemy? Imho the event that took place should have been considered a step forward in Bretonian - Hessian RP and trust so they could further develop their diplomatic status with each other.. Not be punished for making their own completely reasonable RP.

Also the whole 'grouping' thing Is reasonable. I mean that the admins punished those who were grouped. That makes sense. I don't know why you guys would group.. if you all didn't it actually would have been pretty cool to see something better come out of that.

' Wrote:So I can take a Military ID and act like a terrorist, shooting everyone that's not flying a Rheinland lawful ship, because my ID doesn't prohibit it?

' Wrote:Before I go to sleep, I want to say a few things here. I was sanctioned too, as a Bowex trader who partially supplied the ships with bats and bots and partially helped shooting the base. I made it out of the Omicrons without being killed, I didn't lose anything. While I think giving out a sanction for what happened against so many players is really harsh, i can't deny that my behaviour in the situation was against my ID regulations and I'm not going to complain about the sanction to me.

I do, however, think I know what he is referring to:

I was in Omicron Delta with another char later just to fly around and watch, and I must say the behaviour around there was disgraceful, and makes the reason why the bretonian/hessian players were sanctioned for in the first place look like a joke. If you base their sanction on the simple fact that they were in the same group, then it's unconscionable to send those players through a system, being attacked from a *randomly appearing* fleet of corsair caps (all of them being prepared totally legit RPwise, and of course no metagaming >_>) and losing things such as CAU's and cloak devices they must've spent hundreds of millions of credits on, if not much more. And the simple thought that I saw one of the players who participated in this revenge orgy request in a thread later that 'the corsair base should be restored now like the brimstone refinery' is absolutely ridiculous. That loss is also in no way comparable, since the corsair base would've fallen anyway, with or without the help of the hessians and accompanying rule violations.

As I said, I didn't lose anything on my side and I do think a consequence was appropriate for multiple players involved in the action, including me, but I denounce the way this was handled both by the admins enforcing the punishment as well as the corsairs and other players abusing the situation to farm some very expensive equipment and to get personal revenge based on an admin action which has nothing to do with RP events at all.

' Wrote:[font=Comic Sans Ms]Does this also mean, that if say, two opposing IDs group for whatever reason, they will get sanctioned if caught? Because my Junker and Hacker have grouped with opposing IDs before for the purpose of roleplaying, and from what I see from this post I would be shunned and punished for that.

' Wrote:So if an alliance, by the rules, consists of grouping with someone, then change "cannot ally with x" to "may not group with x" on the IDs. Simple.

' Wrote:The group is the whole issue here, nothing more.

' Wrote:Also the whole 'grouping' thing Is reasonable. I mean that the admins punished those who were grouped. That makes sense. I don't know why you guys would group.. if you all didn't it actually would have been pretty cool to see something better come out of that.

' Wrote:What I don't understand is why, unless they were all hostile to the Zoners, that the people would even TRY to get back through space without docking at FP11 and mounting their gear back up.

' Wrote:Actually, as far as sanctions go, in my opinion this was pretty light, and it gets the message out to everyone. If you want to work with your enemies or someone you're not normally supposed to do, then DON'T GROUP WITH THEM. That's the point Del AND Blodo made - you shared comm links, you weren't working against a common enemy, you ALLIED with them.