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+--- Thread: What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) (/showthread.php?tid=83249)
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Jinx - 07-07-2012
to echo what dashiel just wrote...
... balancing nomad gear according to public human gear is in the nomads favour. - even if it may not seem like that at first.
when the voidrunner and various other things were clearly overpowered, - agreeing with the idea of "they are scary, ancient and powerful, their lore suggests technology millenia ahead of humans etc. etc" - the only and LEGIT counter to a nomad ship was to outnumber it.. - a means that is hard to balance.
if there is no fairness in stats - no one can expect an affected player to balance the numbers.
or to be clear - the more advantages of ANY kind the nomads possess ( and their associates ) - the more they MUST be outnumbered - there is no other way for other players.
even if nomads are NOT attacking outright - the possibility that they CAN - by ID - is enough reason to make a preemptive strike ( see todays politics - especially warfare of the last 10-20 years ) ... when you face someone that simply CAN attack you, and also has weapons that can do a lot of harm - you do not wait till HE makes the move, you take the advantage - and attack first.
a reasonable way - that also acknowledges the nomads special case of having no economy is to give them a tremendous, but reasonable advantage.
- make the cloak and jumpdrive - and whatever else humans can manufacture buyable on their NPC bases ... for a reasonable price.
- their equipment will consume liquid cardamine - which would be equal to the humans BEST fuel
nomad advantages:
- no building of bases
- no maintenance
- no fear of loosing the base to ANYONE
- their fuel does not decay in time
- liquid cardamine is available at their bases
imo - those are very favourable conditions - that are also reasonable. we simply cannot expect nomads to build their bases - but we also cannot expect them to ooRP transfer all their stuff.
it is in their - and also other players best interest to keep the characteristics of the equipment as much the same as possible though. altering their stuff - like infinite activation time etc. might not quite break the balance too much ... but it will make other players regard them as unfair.
honestly - i don t see a reason, nither in RP nor oo RP - to ask for more than what i wrote before. ( and i think we don t take into consideration if a faction is closed or not anymore - it does not quite provide any effect to the quality of the roleplay shown ingame )
it WILL take time for other players to acknowledge that nomad equipment is mostly equal to their own - till it sinks in that one doesn t need to outnumber to be fair. - that is the price that was extended from having OP gear for a long time.
the advantages provided for much easier access to their special equipment is a balance for their remote base of operations ( although most factions do have very remote places - it just doesn t affect them so much, cause they also have very limited ZoI )
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-07-2012
' Wrote:make noms scary sure. give em some proper kit, sure.
1 thing I would like to stop then is nom players complaining about ganks. 1 uber ship equals 2 lesser ones, for example. (2 makos / ossies on 1 marduk)
But like i said, give em proper terror-kit, sure.
Nomads may complain or semi mention a gank in mirror share, but they should Know the million times ive said to them... if they were any of my morphs that your are to exspect and yes Face a gank head on.
its our job.
jinx.
Not sure your echoing anything. thats between you and dash though.
Simply? ive read the post. I swear to god.
Your not seeing the point or you are and your just ignoring it.
This whole "your id and your flaccid equipment is enough of an advantage. and you should embrace the nerf bs." Is all i can take from that whole post. The community has already disagreed with this.
Your opinion is duely noted but Im prettysure the community at large is still going to support a player operated antagonist over it being "just another faction".
If you wish to balance the hell out of everything and make the whole place one big shade of grey thats whats your entitled to think.
Thank god I think its inherently impossible to do so (though over the years some common sense to the changes seems to exist).
Ive clearly stated the points from whom I need real confirmation from.
The fact this thread sits idle (among many) and gets none or that I get no Imed responses shows the immaturity in the "stay silent" policy the people supposedly running the place have.
And yes i hope that people realize its immature IE not responsible to have this crap flapping in the dark. I dont care whatever the hell you "THINK" is safe about it.
Why?
I couldn't conduct any of my business the way this is done or id be out of customers and colleges. (Well huggie it is free and) No no it isnt.
I invest my damn time into this damn faction and do my job. Im not juding or calling people names here im asking for the obvious and painful curtosey of an exsplaination, response, or a sign of life. THAT IS ALL. You tell me to screw off and ill happily do so. You tell me to Wait Ill happily do so. But people get Nothing.
I dont even care if its good news or bad news Im just planning and investigating possibilities.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Aladeen - 07-07-2012
HuggieSunrise Wrote:This whole "your id and your flaccid equipment is enough of an advantage. and you should embrace the nerf bs." Is all i can take from that whole post. The community has already disagreed with this.
I haven't. I tend to agree with Jinx, although I think he or she is being too linient with you. Looks like "The community" are only those people who agree with you?
HuggieSunrise Wrote:If you wish to balance the hell out of everything and make the whole place one big shade of grey thats whats your entitled to think.
Ok, let's not make it a balanced shade of grey.
Let's make your ships weaker and those of your enemies stronger, and give them the right to go anywhere and to engage anyone they ever wanted while you have to stick to 10 systems, and make them invite only and nomads free for all.
Vanilla nomads got their asses kicked anyway, by a third rate freelancer in a crappy ship, by the truckload.
Would you like that better?
HuggieSunrise Wrote:I invest my damn time into this damn faction and do my job.
So do other faction leaders, does that mean they should immediately get their plans for OP designs granted?
HuggieSunrise Wrote:Im not juding or calling people names here im asking for the obvious and painful curtosey of an exsplaination, response, or a sign of life. THAT IS ALL. You tell me to screw off and ill happily do so. You tell me to Wait Ill happily do so. But people get Nothing.
I dont even care if its good news or bad news Im just planning and investigating possibilities.
To be honnest, you tend to put a lot of text wrapped around little useful information in most of your posts. For example you tell us how sober or drunk you are at the moment, how everybody else is stupid and you're the most special person ever, telling us fascinating things about you in the third person, and so on.
Maybe if were more concise and polite, people would find it easier to respond to you.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Sayfog - 07-08-2012
As a nom morph, the biggest strength is just everyone in New York going "hang on, there is nomad fighter by Manhattan, so yes, I support this as this is ths nomads strength, to appear out of nowhere. Just imagine a fleet uncloaking or jumping in next to Manhattan, the shock factor alone should provide plenty of easy trader kills around the planet, adding to the chaos.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-08-2012
' Wrote:I haven't. I tend to agree with Jinx, although I think he or she is being too linient with you. Looks like "The community" are only those people who agree with you?
if you take the time to tally the positive and honest feedback on the issues I've presented, which i have done, that's all I can base that conclusion on. Id say since we began noticing the new systems were not designed for this faction but the human majority (which is fine/awesome and dandy) however In that lack of having a nomad equivalent it literally put the majority into an automatic advantage of the nomads.
But please don't let me educate you its apparent you've read much about this subject that was initially brought up by a NON faction member but a concerned member of the community.
Jinx? i love jinx! the modeling is gorgeous I also am a fan of Gilmore girls.
I havent made it personal, if it seems that way Im sorry folks think that but really the frustration i express i'snt towards people it towards management because i know they can do better in the communication department and really to fear this aspect as I have heard from third party sources (skype ims and just rumors) its silly. Its like treating everyone in the group summarily as bad as the minority of the jerks within it deserve.
Quote:Ok, let's not make it a balanced shade of grey.
Let's make your ships weaker and those of your enemies stronger, and give them the right to go anywhere and to engage anyone they ever wanted while you have to stick to 10 systems, and make them invite only and nomads free for all.
Vanilla nomads got their asses kicked anyway, by a third rate freelancer in a crappy ship, by the truckload.
Would you like that better?
Whoa is this igiss?
If thats what they want us to do? FINE! tell me straight out, privately,whatever. Just not via a possible alt registered last month+2days.
The being left in the dark stuff has got to go because eventually people are just going to assume no. and THAT will be those (with the responsibility To respond)'s Fault.
The nomads being a closed faction is up to the membership. Its a matter that can be voted on and passed overnight to open it up. And this issue and THIS thread is actually a large factor in deciding this before august.
As for the single player and we can go round and round about single player cannon for years but it has already been settled that it doesn't matter. What does matter is what ive brought up. the community and what it wants I wish it in their hands. But the problem is..It isnt it never is its in "managements" hands.
If you spent -any- time in vanilla freelancer.. harvesting those nomad lasers for your eagle/sabre/titan wasent always "easy". and it shouldn't have been.
Quote:So do other faction leaders, does that mean they should immediately get their plans for OP designs granted?
i would need examples of this so called unruly majority of faction leaders that want op equipment. Strawman arguments are oh so fun. But they don't stand up to this big bad wolf.
people want whats best for thier factions for different reasons. if you think my reasons are crap and its for an ego boost go ahead and attack me and say so. I dont know how much more clearly i can put it other than.
"Khara should be the all encompassing badguys. But we certainly arent. It seems we're just being made one more faction with none of the allies for trade and cooperation roughly the rest enjoy. Not that we want it. Wed rather die."
Quote:To be honnest, you tend to put a lot of text wrapped around little useful information in most of your posts. For example you tell us how sober or drunk you are at the moment, how everybody else is stupid and you're the most special person ever, telling us fascinating things about you in the third person, and so on.
Maybe if were more concise and polite, people would find it easier to respond to you.
To be honest I have been polite, concise and polite. I have been private and discreet. This has gotten us roughly nowhere.
Anyone else who has spent time here would ..maybe empathize with that point. If you truly knew my credentials you would be surprised why im even bothering.
Well maybe not I follow things to the final and bitter end because usually thats as far as ill go, even beyond the point of death of a subject but thats vary rare.
This is a squeaky wheel its going to get squeakier and unfortunately the proper methods are lost on those whom Ive wasted them.. When they honestly shouldn't be. Trust me I agree with you on the civilized approach. Its been tried.
I also find it amazing someone whos subscribed to the forums for a month has done such background reading about me and my posts to have developed such an understanding of my pathology as if it even matters in this topic. I do not matter. At all. the subject is clear.
Or? was that intended as the cherry ontop of your strawman/Ad Hominem argument flavor of posting?
Follow instructions make your own thread. Whoever you really are.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Ipuvaepe - 07-08-2012
' Wrote:Just imagine a fleet uncloaking or jumping in next to ManhattanI can. A fleet uncloaking is "reasonable" (though a good way to prevent noms from getting buffed back to old stats), a fleet jumping in is under all circumstances unreasonable. Why? Because this means they don't have to actively spend time flying through the five or six systems to get there. It will become the "I'm bored lets lulz-pew around 'hattan" faction. Even a 15 minute jump time would be unreasonable, because it's completely passive and requires no effort. One could simply watch netflix, hulu, or another video online in that time.
Raids should always require constant and active effort.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-08-2012
After watching the lack of raids this weekend.. I actually have to agree with puv. Then again Ideally. a good event should be planned and lately weve had to plan them ourselves.
Jumpdrives aren't critical but I do have to stick with the idea the cloaks.. at least are. considering how all the parts are there and the effort to put them in are literally measured in minutes.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Govedo13 - 07-08-2012
' Wrote:"Khara should be the all encompassing badguys. But we certainly arent. It seems we're just being made one more faction with none of the allies for trade and cooperation roughly the rest enjoy. Not that we want it. Wed rather die."Commenting on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXsmyLtpxlA
You cannot have closed faction that is enemy with everyone having better ID and ZoI then them and expect to receive any respect much- sadly for you people playing here care mostly for the essential stuff- blue msgs, balanced ships, having fun in equal fights where they can equally win or loose etc- the part of general population that cares more for the RP part of the game then the PvP part of the game is rather small.
It is PvP shooter game with scull near the server name anyway- the RP part was added by enthusiasts however the main purpose still remains- shooter.
From your RP standpoint I do understand your position- this does not means that it is right position for the server environment. Balanced nomad ships and balanced fights/rides allow people that fight you to have actually fun as well- and as result of them having fun they would start slowly to respect you with the time.
I know that is might sound selfish but you do exactly the same- you want better stuff because everyone and his dog shoot you/gank you. Making allies is hard process- believe me I was there- it requires trust and cooperation and most important numbers, being closed exclude you from this, same for Wild.
If you does not believe me that you loose more by being closed then you win ask SCRA- they were much against being open-Devs forced it on them- as it seems for first time in a long period SCRA is really active and it is fun to fight alongside them/versus them a lot.
It is human and natural to group along others- if you have 20 ships in different factions would you log your nomad to play alone or you would log your indie SCRA when you see 4-5 more SCRA and 4-5 SCRA enemies in the player list?
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Vrabcek - 07-08-2012
' Wrote:You cannot have closed faction that is enemy with everyone having better ID and ZoI then them and expect to receive any respect much
It worked before.
Ah hell dammit, having everything the same is so much boring. It is so boring to see everybody has the same but with different colours, everybody behaves the same.
Variety, differences make the game interesting. Balancing everything 1:1 is just not doing any good...
And tell me Govedo, what is so overpowered of the nomad cloaking system Huggie suggested and presented here? Becouse I fail to see the point of your arguments on the topic.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Sayfog - 07-10-2012
Okay guys, can we please stop being at each others throats and get back on topic, just maybe?
So what I think we take away from this thread is:
+ Nomad cloaks should be sneak in and ambush rather than run away devices. In this regard it's makes sense to have a long charge time balanced by unlimited duration. If noms had human cloaks, they would get owned whenever they tried to infiltrate any house because they would run out so quickly.
+ Jump drives are a point of contention, what if they got 'innaccurate' versions.
+ Docking modules don't seem to make much sense lore wise, for a Marduk to carry fighters, it would have to 'give birth' to the fighters it doesn't have the 3 days to create a mature fighter and a decent mindshare connection to place itself inside the new fighter. However this is just because the larger nom ships don't appear to have anywhere to store the fighters although battleships and cruisers are made up of smaller fighters. The flipside of this is for capital ships lore wise to deploy any fighters during battle, they would have to sacrifice parts of themselves, becoming weaker in the process. (Please tell me if I stuffed up anywhere lore wise)
Well that turned out longer than expected, hopefully I managed to fix any unwanted autocorrecting.