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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Garrett Jax - 03-04-2014
Quote:Garret are you actually saying that you expected the current Zoner leaders to review the past....five to seven years or forum history and get back with you in four days?
News flash, buddy, people have lives outside of Disco. On top of that, it is extremely difficult to keep track of every bit of lore produced on these forums and in the game.
You see no lore because you are not looking for it. The fact that you're not looking for it and the fact that you expected the Zoner leaders to produce an exhaustive list in such a short time span clearly shows you have no intention of advocating for the Zoner players. You have a majority of Zoner players who don't want their faction changed, yet you've ignored them and instead gone with what you want. Exactly how is that advocating for them?
When I was still active and leading OSI or acting as the 2iC we tried numerous times to work with the dev team to correct the lore holes regarding the capital ships (and other things). Guess what? Dev team either ignored us or told us that it was an extremely low priority and chances of them implementing it were nill. Jinx was part of that team.
Why in the heck would we waste our time when the Dev team basically told us it was a waste of our time?
You want to know what is going to happen? Regardless of what the Zoner factions and player produce - the Dev team is going to do what they want. Always have. So all you're doing is asking a section of your player base to waste their time leading them to believe that it might change the outcome.
I've gone above and beyond in listening and trying to help Zoner players during the last few days. Why don't you ask the Official faction leaders about all the work we've put in together before you spout off at me on the forums. I never placed a time limit on when to dig up the lore to justify their cap use. I only suggested that they do so to substantiate their claims for cap usage.
I've no dog in this fight. I willingly chose to work with Zoner leadership to help them come up with some sort of compromise with the Devs since communication seems to have broken down between them. Maybe this will all be for nothing, who knows. But the Zoner leaders have chosen to try and work things out, and as long as they are willing, I will be there to assist them.
I would be very appreciative if you got off my back and let me continue to help them out.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Dead Reckoning - 03-04-2014
(03-04-2014, 08:10 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote:Quote:Garret are you actually saying that you expected the current Zoner leaders to review the past....five to seven years or forum history and get back with you in four days?
News flash, buddy, people have lives outside of Disco. On top of that, it is extremely difficult to keep track of every bit of lore produced on these forums and in the game.
You see no lore because you are not looking for it. The fact that you're not looking for it and the fact that you expected the Zoner leaders to produce an exhaustive list in such a short time span clearly shows you have no intention of advocating for the Zoner players. You have a majority of Zoner players who don't want their faction changed, yet you've ignored them and instead gone with what you want. Exactly how is that advocating for them?
When I was still active and leading OSI or acting as the 2iC we tried numerous times to work with the dev team to correct the lore holes regarding the capital ships (and other things). Guess what? Dev team either ignored us or told us that it was an extremely low priority and chances of them implementing it were nill. Jinx was part of that team.
Why in the heck would we waste our time when the Dev team basically told us it was a waste of our time?
You want to know what is going to happen? Regardless of what the Zoner factions and player produce - the Dev team is going to do what they want. Always have. So all you're doing is asking a section of your player base to waste their time leading them to believe that it might change the outcome.
I've gone above and beyond in listening and trying to help Zoner players during the last few days. Why don't you ask the Official faction leaders about all the work we've put in together before you spout off at me on the forums. I never placed a time limit on when to dig up the lore to justify their cap use. I only suggested that they do so to substantiate their claims for cap usage.
I've no dog in this fight. I willingly chose to work with Zoner leadership to help them come up with some sort of compromise with the Devs since communication seems to have broken down between them. Maybe this will all be for nothing, who knows. But the Zoner leaders have chosen to try and work things out, and as long as they are willing, I will be there to assist them.
I would be very appreciative if you got off my back and let me continue to help them out.
Well, I appreciate it Garrett. Good to know that there is communication happening.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Gytrash - 03-04-2014
(03-04-2014, 08:10 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote:Quote:<What Daedric said><What Garrett Said>
Daedric, Garrett has actually been helpful, we've had a few members of the Admin team be very helpful. Unfortunately we have not had as much luck with the Devs.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Aazalot - 03-04-2014
Ya Garret spent a sizable amount of time with Zoner leaders and other Zoner faction members, taking flak, abuse and name calling until tempers and what not died down and we all managed to acctully work through and get some straight talking and clear thinking solutions dealt onto the table. Garrett should be commended for his efforts
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Jinx - 03-04-2014
PMed to doc
if by constructive and reasonable arguments the devs can be convinced that the changes would be too harmful - opposed to re-railing the zoners to where we believe they ought to be. - the change may be nullified.
it is a democratic decision by the active devs - and some things must be proven
- zoners must prove that they have a genuine requirement of a fully capable military grade battleship - and that does not mean they come up with silly population charts - but they come up with WHY they need to build them.
- zoners need to get their RP around the fact that some players will use those ships not as colony barges or exploration ships - but as pure battleships - made for battle. and they will approve that usage and they will support the usage of those ships as BATTLEships.
the members that are needed to be persuaded in the dev team was pmed to doc - if they agree with him - so be it. - and we will hope that the zoners will adjust their RP accordingly in the future.
this decision was made not by the trolls that insult or get personal on the forum - but by reasonable arguments in a calm state btw.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Xylo - 03-04-2014
Just a question...
What are the points that speak against keeping the old model and nerfing the Nephilim so heavily that it is simply unsuitable for combat (halve their speed and number of guns, for example), so people can RP them as their colony ships, mobile freeports, or what ever, without anyone "abusing them"?
It seems that would solve all the problems that are brought up here, while it shouldn't affect the people who claim to only want to use them for these RP purposes (if what they are saying is really true, at least).
I simply don't get it why you don't just do that.
EDIT:
Secondly I like the super-transport model and idea, don't get me wrong. But I don't really see why Zoners should fly them. Seems to be something more useful for house trade factions.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - 7AlphaOne1 - 03-04-2014
Xylo is seconded
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Moberg - 03-04-2014
(03-04-2014, 02:02 PM)Jinx Wrote: - zoners must prove that they have a genuine requirement of a fully capable military grade battleship - and that does not mean they come up with silly population charts - but they come up with WHY they need to build them.
This should also include why you can't perform those tasks with fighters, bombers, gunboats and 2 different cruisers.
It is easier to kill a battleship with bombers than in another battleship, since you can get hit barely at all. With tactics any cruiser can solo a battleship. From my perspective, the Zoners have everything they need to defend their freeports.
Foremost, diplomacy. The key point to ensure that they have sufficient protection and as few enemies as possible. The only threat that can't be turned into an ally/neutral quickly is the Nomads, but only one Freeport is actively threatened by this due to being kinda at the front. (Omicron Delta).
Then what of your ships you can use against different enemy shipclasses:
- Fighters -> Fighters, Gunboats
- Bombers -> Fighters, Gunboats
- Gunboats -> Cruiser, Gunboats, Bomber, Fighter
- Cruiser -> Cruiser, Gunboat, Bomber
- Battleship -> Cruiser, Bomber
I fail to see how you from a gameplay and lore perspective have the active need for battleship-grade equipment being built in masses in comparison to just a few built and given through SRP.
//edit - Plus escorts are needed in all cases for transports/battleships/freighters anyway.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - t0l - 03-04-2014
Lemme say this for the 100th time.
Continue your roleplay without battleship turrets. If your RP as a Zoner relied on BS guns, you went wrong somewhere.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Xylo - 03-04-2014
(03-04-2014, 03:01 PM)Tal Wrote: Lemme say this for the 100th time.
Continue your roleplay without battleship turrets. If your RP as a Zoner relied on BS guns, you went wrong somewhere.
I think it's the character of the new model that people have have the most problems with. The biodomes, the size, and the fact that it wasn't an easy kill gave the old ship a very different character from most ships, which made it attractive for certain kinds of RP, even if its not intended as a combat ship. The new model doesn't have the same character as the old one, disregarding the guns and the labels of "battleship" or "transport".