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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Major_Mayhem - 03-04-2014
(03-04-2014, 08:00 PM)E.T. Wrote: Zoners just take another ship which gives you enough powercore to continue or just use other id like order or maybe even img who can also use caps. This won't solve the problems people (ab)using capital ships. In this case the zoner ones.. It only shift it to another faction
(03-04-2014, 07:33 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote: My fellow Zoner Leaders and I have presented an interesting list of RP events and stories to the Admins wich would have to be completely retconned, if the change were to come trough.
E.g The Omicroner/Corsair war was fought with Capital ships on both sides. If the Capital ship line of the Zoner were to be retconned, this war could not have happened like it did. There is ample forum RP around this, and Red Eclipse has presented it to Garret, who, to this day, has so far not even commented on it.
(03-04-2014, 07:33 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote: I must say it is getting very repetitive. I'm quite sure I have voiced the same arguments several times already and some people are either not willing or not able to read and reflect
In fact, I do believe that we could, at that point, answer all comments by quoting ourselfes....
Edit to down: You are clearly either not willing or not able to read.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - E.T. - 03-04-2014
Mayhem you can use a swarm of bombers too. Those are the most multitasking ships in the game. You can shoot fighters and caps (some bombers at least)
also some things like lore, much is written already and some is in my eyes nonsense. I have read some lore people did write. Some I do like others im still against at for being bad.
vanilla lore are zoners and img almost the same except the img being focussed on mining, yet they have a huge fleet? Even own cruiser which is pretty good if you compare it to several others. Point is its not a game problem, but its human nature to see and use things in their best interest.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Jinx - 03-04-2014
to elaborate :
@RedEclipse : " i " know why zoners need battleships - it just seemed to me that " you " people forgot it. cause whenever someone used the ships as BATTLEships - they were told that it is bad RP - and not zonerish.
@general idea of a more passive capline:
yes - that had been an option all along - and to be honest - that actually IS what the new line was about to be. - along with models that FIT freelancer better, cause ( and yes - that is entirely my own fault ) the zoner ships simply look a good deal too advanced compared to houses or other factions.
BUT it seems the zoners want to keep their barges with biodomes - and their BSG like carriers alright.
according to garret who provided me with a concept agreed on by all 3 official factions that are either zoner or based on zoners... the idea is to nerf the nephilim and the aquillon down so they are not comparable to other warships anymore. - but keep the models.
well - thats easy - we can simply remove its weapons - no problem there and a lot less work indeed. how many weapons we remove is then up to what feels "right"
i might want to remind you that RPing a zoner that is aggressive and also wants to rush into battle .. was also legit roleplay. - which is now cut from the zoners "lore".
zoner caps will become nerft if the other devs agree on it.
personally i can agree with it - but i do believe that it is the worse path to go. - i just do hope that it provides the zoners with the style so they do not appear on the drama radar each year - and so that they do not need to fight like a sack full of cats when an unofficial faction or group tries something different in the future.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Dead Reckoning - 03-04-2014
(03-04-2014, 09:20 PM)Jinx Wrote: to elaborate :
@RedEclipse : " i " know why zoners need battleships - it just seemed to me that " you " people forgot it. cause whenever someone used the ships as BATTLEships - they were told that it is bad RP - and not zonerish.
@general idea of a more passive capline:
yes - that had been an option all along - and to be honest - that actually IS what the new line was about to be. - along with models that FIT freelancer better, cause ( and yes - that is entirely my own fault ) the zoner ships simply look a good deal too advanced compared to houses or other factions.
BUT it seems the zoners want to keep their barges with biodomes - and their BSG like carriers alright.
according to garret who provided me with a concept agreed on by all 3 official factions that are either zoner or based on zoners... the idea is to nerf the nephilim and the aquillon down so they are not comparable to other warships anymore. - but keep the models.
well - thats easy - we can simply remove its weapons - no problem there and a lot less work indeed. how many weapons we remove is then up to what feels "right"
i might want to remind you that RPing a zoner that is aggressive and also wants to rush into battle .. was also legit roleplay. - which is now cut from the zoners "lore".
zoner caps will become nerft if the other devs agree on it.
personally i can agree with it - but i do believe that it is the worse path to go. - i just do hope that it provides the zoners with the style so they do not appear on the drama radar each year - and so that they do not need to fight like a sack full of cats when an unofficial faction or group tries something different in the future.
I don't think it's so much that we disagreed with them being used as battleship as much as it was we disagreed with how they were RP'd as battleships. In my RP I always liked to imagine it a colony ship first and foremost, but if needed she could charge into battle. I feel it should be a defensive battleship, as a last resort kind of thing. Not an aggressor. Thus, I was more in favor of either restricting the npc ID or the ship to the factions so that it could maintain that big defensive colony ship status. I understand that view is not shared by all, but I had thought that a number of other Zoners saw it that way.
Quote:the idea is to nerf the nephilim and the aquillon down so they are not comparable to other warships anymore. - but keep the models.
well - thats easy - we can simply remove its weapons - no problem there and a lot less work indeed. how many weapons we remove is then up to what feels "right"
I'm hoping it keeps BS turrets so it can still be used in that defensive role, just less of them so that it wouldn't be wise to act as an aggressor really. It should be able to defend in the event of RP incursions.
In the Omicrons:
Neph: 4 heavy hardpoints, 1,500,000 armor (heavy BS)
Persephone(worth mentioning, even though there are only 2.): 3 heavy hardpoints, 1,450,000 armor (heavy BS)
Legate: 4 heavy hardpoints, 1,000,000 armor (heavy BS)
Osiris: 2 heavy hardpoints, 700,000 armor (light BS)
Mako: 2 heavy hardpoints: 695,000 armor (light BS)
Marduk (though inRP if this is coming for you, you're probably screwed): 4 heavy hardpoints, 1,650,000 armor, (heavy BS)
If the Neph were to have 2 Heavies, possibly a bit a less armor, it would no longer be the toughest thing in the area on paper(note that despite those stats, those other ships can make work of the Neph simply because of its size and slow turn speed, the second slowest in game.), but still be able to defend if another Corsair / Zoner problem broke out.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - RedEclipse - 03-04-2014
Jinx, I don't think it's a good idea to repeat same things once more, in a different post. Stop ignoring. You are perfectly know why Zoners need capital ships(oh sorry i meant BATTLEships)
Anyway, idea of nerfing or btrans won't stop seasons of drama, which you took care of. Official factions/SRP and everything is solved. But yeah, nobody from devs actually listen to official factions. Other than that zoner caps is not OP, but weak.
"BUT it seems the zoners want to keep their barges with biodomes - and their BSG like carriers alright. "
Who created them? Who added them? *whistles* I don't know, if devs were able to consult about ongoing changes with the factions, you won't even face to such resistance. But you decide to change completely the playground and turn all Zoners into traders with horrible ID - that's what we don't like, it's against simple good manners and lore of other Zoner factions.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Trogdor - 03-05-2014
IMO
The Zoners should have a colony ship - but this ship should not necessarily be a battleship. Something that looks like it might be able to park itself and turn into a station by cannibalizing itself.
AND
they should have an actual dreadnought, which is intended to defend their colonies, not just itself - that fighters, bombers, and cruisers are insufficient for protecting Zoner stations in the edge worlds. It may not be a ship that is intended to sustain itself with biodomes.
There have been numerous military conflicts with other factions, some of which we did nothing to provoke. And there are the nomads and wilde out there who attack because that is what they do.
Whether or not the ship we build for this purpose is any GOOD is another matter entirely.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Doc Holliday - 03-05-2014
Quote:The Zoners should have a colony ship - but this ship should not necessarily be a battleshipI look at it this way, Trogdor. If I'm building a ship that I will take to explore deep space that has entire families on it, biodomes and research facilities on board, I'm going to make sure that that ship is heavily armed to protect my assets. THAT is Zoner lore. I'm sorry that some idiots in server have decided to use it as a weapon of war, flying into house space and opening up on everyone. Why ruin it for the rest?
Quote:There have been numerous military conflicts with other factions, some of which we did nothing to provoke.Yes, most recently, the Corsairs and SCRA making Omega 49 a battleground. Unfortunately for both of them, once again, Zoners didn't pick sides like they wanted them to.
Quote: And there are the nomads and wilde out there who attack because that is what they do.And we want to nerf Zoner ships why?
I have been fighting hard to keep things as they are. We don't need this nerf. I think it'll just open up more episodes of bullying and pushing the Zoner populace. Zoner RP only works if the other side is willing to give a little which in many cases, they aren't. I'm not saying initiate hostilities but I'm not beneath holding my ground.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Doc Holliday - 03-05-2014
(03-04-2014, 02:02 PM)Jinx Wrote: PMed to doc
if by constructive and reasonable arguments the devs can be convinced that the changes would be too harmful - opposed to re-railing the zoners to where we believe they ought to be. - the change may be nullified.
it is a democratic decision by the active devs - and some things must be proven
- zoners must prove that they have a genuine requirement of a fully capable military grade battleship - and that does not mean they come up with silly population charts - but they come up with WHY they need to build them.
- zoners need to get their RP around the fact that some players will use those ships not as colony barges or exploration ships - but as pure battleships - made for battle. and they will approve that usage and they will support the usage of those ships as BATTLEships.
the members that are needed to be persuaded in the dev team was pmed to doc - if they agree with him - so be it. - and we will hope that the zoners will adjust their RP accordingly in the future.
this decision was made not by the trolls that insult or get personal on the forum - but by reasonable arguments in a calm state btw.
Yes, Jinx, I do hope that the developers read my posts hear. They contain much of what I have fought for.
I do agree that this issue will be decided by cooler heads and not those who choose insult.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Trogdor - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 01:45 AM)Doc Holliday Wrote:Sure. However, the primary purpose of that ship is going to be to protect the people inside it, to choose the safest route through the danger. If possible, it would choose to escape conflict. Whereas the latter cares more about protecting those not on board and does not carry families on sightseeing tours.Quote:The Zoners should have a colony ship - but this ship should not necessarily be a battleshipI look at it this way, Trogdor. If I'm building a ship that I will take to explore deep space that has entire families on it, biodomes and research facilities on board, I'm going to make sure that that ship is heavily armed to protect my assets. THAT is Zoner lore. I'm sorry that some idiots in server have decided to use it as a weapon of war, flying into house space and opening up on everyone. Why ruin it for the rest?
Though while I am dreaming, I'd like a pony. In hindsight it seems a bit foolish to be entertaining the thought of an actual dreadnought when the capital ships we have are up in the air.
Quote:Quote: And there are the nomads and wilde out there who attack because that is what they do.And we want to nerf Zoner ships why?
I have been fighting hard to keep things as they are. We don't need this nerf. I think it'll just open up more episodes of bullying and pushing the Zoner populace. Zoner RP only works if the other side is willing to give a little which in many cases, they aren't. I'm not saying initiate hostilities but I'm not beneath holding my ground.
Sadly I think this is what many want the Zoners to be - politically inconsequential pushovers. Some are non-zoners who want to do the pushing, others are Zoners who want to just say "yeah yeah okay we'll give you whatever you want, now leave me alone so I can get back to trading."
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Dead Reckoning - 03-05-2014
Let it be known that I do not want to be politically inconsequential and like things as they are now as well. A powerful ship is a useful deterrent against people pushing. That said, I always try to aim my RP at diplomacy and have never personally had to utilize the nephs offensive power. I understand why it is necessary though. My posts arguing have mostly been about keeping the Neph with atleast some form of offensive power in the event that the nerf is inevitable.