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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Xylo - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 01:45 AM)Doc Holliday Wrote:Quote:The Zoners should have a colony ship - but this ship should not necessarily be a battleshipI look at it this way, Trogdor. If I'm building a ship that I will take to explore deep space that has entire families on it, biodomes and research facilities on board, I'm going to make sure that that ship is heavily armed to protect my assets. THAT is Zoner lore. I'm sorry that some idiots in server have decided to use it as a weapon of war, flying into house space and opening up on everyone. Why ruin it for the rest?
I completely agree that Zoner lore does NOT mean you have to be the yes-man underling of the next best Order/Corsair/Outcast that comes along. Zoners LEFT the houses because they didn't want to be the underlings of the authorities there, why should they make themselves the willingly-abiding-to-everything punching-ball of some megalomaniac Order admiral or their counterparts in other factions?
However, I'm not for calling people idiots just because they took what was made available for them, and use it in the way that is most efficient and fun for them. That's simply what people do in a game. And a game is what this is, at least to people who haven't dedicated the better part of the last 7 years to it. If you don't want people to use it as a weapon of war, don't make it suitable to be a weapon of war.
As to how to protect families in your exploration/colony ship...
The best way to do that is not to put really big guns and armor on your exploration ship. The best way to protect it is to have a defense fleet travel with it, which will keep attackers at a distance, and make attackers busy shooting the other ships instead of your colony ship. Best way to get him to do that is to put high damage output/damage tolerance ration on those ships so enemies will need to kill those first if they want to win, and low damage output/damage tolerance ratio on your colony ship. Shooting the latter first may get the attackers to successfully destroy the colony ship, but put them in a much worse position to survive the confrontation themselves. That's only true if the colony ship cant pass bots to the defending ships, of course. So how to balance it:
Nanobot and shield battery capacity: 0
Hull and shield strength: Stronger than most battleships
Guns: Crap. Maybe half of what they got now, or even less
Speed: Also crap, because its so huge
If the player doesn't have friends for a defense fleet... he can stay in a safe place with. If he doesn't want to stay in a safe place, he has lots of alternative ships to fly instead.
(03-05-2014, 01:45 AM)Doc Holliday Wrote: And we want to nerf Zoner ships why?
Not all Zoner ships, just the Nephy.
Actually, I'd remove nanobots and shield batteries from ALL caps in the game, not just the zoner ones, and give them more hull strength instead. That way they cant feed snubs and its not like caps get instakilled before they can press f and g anyway. Cant think of a single reason why they should have regens, because all it does is mess up group fights with it.
(03-05-2014, 01:45 AM)Doc Holliday Wrote: I have been fighting hard to keep things as they are. We don't need this nerf. I think it'll just open up more episodes of bullying and pushing the Zoner populace. Zoner RP only works if the other side is willing to give a little which in many cases, they aren't.
Caps don't keep you from being bullied, they tend to attract bullies to come and bully you.
People jump in fighters, cry people a reaver/lollipop/torpedo as soon as they see the first cap on scanners, get their gang who was waiting for one of them to play victim, and with the same old repetitive IRP and OORP insulting and bashing kick the crap out of the noob in the cap, who never had a chance to kill anyone with it to begin with.
That's how it's always been in disco, since 4.84. Probably longer.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Gytrash - 03-05-2014
Something that people need to keep in mind is that this is a ROLEPLAY server.
As stated by Igiss and whenever you log onto the server. We are presenting Roleplay reasons for keeping our ships and pointing out how it would be detrimental to our roleplay if the proposed changes were to go through.
The Devs consistently argue that Lore should trump roleplay and that this is being done to stop the presence of a lot of Zoner ships (Something that is not reflected in roleplay or in lore at all).
Just something to think about there.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Xylo - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 07:11 AM)Gytrash Wrote: Something that people need to keep in mind is that this is a ROLEPLAY server.
When ever someone says that, it's safe to assume that he wont present any real arguments or reasons that really justify anything. Yeah. Check.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Dead Reckoning - 03-05-2014
The problem with the ship "needing a fleet to defend" is that you're then nerfing the playtime of it into the ground. How often can you assemble a defense formation to assist you? How long will they stick with you? In my case, not many. I'm lucky if 35 people are online when I play. And I'm supposed to find 3 or 4 to guard my ship while I do whatever rp I had planned? Its a gift if even 2 others are in the system I am in. I wouldn't be able to just hang out on the ship. And what if I don't have rp planned? What if I want to log to find and make some? I then have to have escorts with me possibly being pointless if I find no rp.
You'd be turning all your colony rp into scheduled events that you would be unable to continue solo (by solo I mean, going solo to find someone else to rp with unescorted)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Xylo - 03-05-2014
I think nerfing the playtime of that ship into the ground is something most people are quite comfortable with.
Cant get people to stick with you but you still wanna go to fight stuff? Don't worry. Fly another ship. Maybe Osiris. Or Eagle.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Dead Reckoning - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 07:37 AM)Xylo Wrote: I think nerfing the playtime of that ship into the ground is something most people are quite comfortable with.
Cant get people to stick with you but you still wanna go to fight stuff? Don't worry. Fly another ship. Maybe Osiris. Or Eagle.
Noone said I wanted to fight stuff. I simply don't want to be blown up and lose a colony inRP because I wanted to play my colony but didn't have any others to play with.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Lonely_Ghost - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 06:08 AM)Xylo Wrote: People jump in fighters, cry people a reaver/lollipop/torpedo as soon as they see the first cap on scanners, get their gang who was waiting for one of them to play victim, and with the same old repetitive IRP and OORP insulting and bashing kick the crap out of the noob in the cap, who never had a chance to kill anyone with it to begin with.
That's how it's always been in disco, since 4.84. Probably longer.
But population and popularity dropped not so long ago....
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Pancakes - 03-05-2014
Lore is part of roleplay. Quite the major one too.
inb4 "HAR HAR, I EVIL ALIEN FROM UNICORN GALAXY, DAI FROM THE WRATH OF MY HANDS PETTY HUMANS"
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Scribbley - 03-05-2014
It is unfortunate some measure can not be taken short of nerfing the ships to address the underlying problem. I don't own one and never have, but I can empathize with what it would be like if I had a ship I enjoyed and was actually capable of winning a fight with (never been a skilled pilot) taken away because of something other players were doing.
Could the ship just be made unavailable to buy without RP from here on, and offenders lose their ships as they offend? Must we nerf?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - sindroms - 03-05-2014
Hey, remember when the Zoner ID had unlimited ZOI and allowed to use any 5ker and dock anywhere and was THE powertrader's choice of ID?
Remember how it did not make sense when it came to the Zoner lore and it was removed and people whined terribly about all of their ships now being useless, since they could not trade between houses and be "house zoners"?
Yeah, this is just yet another moment of that same period.