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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - sindroms - 03-05-2014
Alright, let me just expand on that a little bit.
Nobody now argues that the zoner ID back in the day was utter retardation, which should have never been there in the first place.
The problem there is that the devs, by modifying the ID, stated that the zoners should be viewed as something else rather than a trading empire, which it had become. Now we get their caps replaced by transports.
The logical question here is what are Zoners then? Because you just reinforced the same mentality you tried to remove a few years ago.
Give the Zoners something to do. Give them a reason to have those transports. Give them some sort of very valuable cargo that needs such a transport. Something that is bought for a LOT, say 10 000$ per unit and sold for twice as much. Give them a mining field. Give them something to do with these new goodies.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Zen_Mechanics - 03-05-2014
With all due respect to the official factions, it doesn't help to blame others. Good points have been raised, but bottom line its not up to indies to do all the work, I always considered such issues as weakness where factions need "help" from outside "sources". Wouldn't it be easier to go on a counter offensive and kill this fake notion about Zoners? Because despite what the devs has said, it has nothing to do with the ships, and nothing to do with the people who use it ( and i still Dont understand where those "zonnie cap whores " they keep bragging about ), its about none Zoners don't want Zoners to have toys. Well guess what, its not vanilla, so yes, with all the logical reasons given, we want toys too, period.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Trogdor - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 10:03 AM)sindroms Wrote: The logical question here is what are Zoners then? Because you just reinforced the same mentality you tried to remove a few years ago.
Give the Zoners something to do. Give them a reason to have those transports. Give them some sort of very valuable cargo that needs such a transport. Something that is bought for a LOT, say 10 000$ per unit and sold for twice as much. Give them a mining field. Give them something to do with these new goodies.
I've already brought this up a few times.
Don't we have enough mining and trading corporations? Wouldn't it be better for the Zoners to be more than that? I, too, would love to see the Zoners get some new cargo to haul - politically sensitive cargo. Pirates will want to steal it, police will want to confiscate or regulate it, and corporations will want to buy it.
My idea was to give the Zoners Cayman, or some new system, that had some kind of toxic swamp planet in it. Some chemical, either in the air or in the water or both, turned out to be valuable, and now the Zoners are harvesting it. Cryer wants it because it can be used to treat the effects of cardimine addiction. The Corsairs want to keep it out of the Outcasts' hands. Other groups want it because of its poisonous properties, or as engine cleaner, or whatever. It's a MacGuffin, a plot device to chase. For all intents and purposes the Zoners could be selling [Swag]. Make it lore that the other groups can't (or don't want to) pay what Cryer is willing to for it, and want this stuff badly enough to try and take it from the Zoners.
Various groups would want to raid these shipments for their cargo, and so defending the shipments and the system they come from would give Zoner escorts and caps something to do.
I mostly agreed with the nerf to the Zoner ID when it comes to trading... Not so much because 'it violated Zoner lore', because it really didn't. As much as the Zoners don't want to live under the rule of the existing houses, they need them. Rather, they need the stuff that is made in those houses. Otherwise, they would just tool off into dark space, never to be seen again. Instead, they build around the houses, expanding further outward one station at a time, always remaining within trading distance of the station that came before it.
However, this freedom made every other trading corporation irrelevant. And so in order to spread the playerbase out across the other trading factions, nerfs were necessary to make being a Zoner trader less appealing. I have squabbled over the details in the past, but on the whole, I agree that this balance decision was necessary.
But none of that has anything to do with the topic at hand. I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be nerfing Zoner caps because we want people to play different caps instead.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - SMI-Great.Fox - 03-05-2014
@Jinx
I had discussed an idea that came to me the other day on your Nephilim replacement ship and was curious.
After a bit of thought, how come the said replacement couldn't be used to fill the transport gap in the zoner line? Right now, it's just the whale.
What we combined our thoughts on was to give the replacement model as it's own ship. A Deep Space Colony Supply Vessel. Whales alone don't fully keep a Colony ship well supplied in deep space, and while the Barge is a giant mobile factory from hell, the new model could be used as a smaller version of such, making it usefull for Mining, Manufacturing, supplying, etc for Colony ships.
Give it similar Stats/Pricing/etc as like the Renzu to keep it from being spammed and such and still be useful for players wishing to RP such a ship does work and can be fully supported by lore.
What do you think?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Xylo - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 08:01 AM)Dead Reckoning Wrote: Noone said I wanted to fight stuff. I simply don't want to be blown up and lose a colony inRP because I wanted to play my colony but didn't have any others to play with.
There is a very, very, very, very, simple and obvious solution to that.
Don't take your Colony to places where you know you will get blown up. Like Iota for example.
Also I didn't ask for a shield or hull nerf, but a gun nerf. The hull and shield can even be buffed, and only the anti-cap guns nerfed, so the colony doesn't explode when a bomber sneezes on it.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Daedric - 03-05-2014
(03-04-2014, 09:44 AM)Gytrash Wrote:(03-04-2014, 08:10 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote:Quote:<What Daedric said><What Garrett Said>
Daedric, Garrett has actually been helpful, we've had a few members of the Admin team be very helpful. Unfortunately we have not had as much luck with the Devs.
I'm not saying he hasn't and I think you and he will be hard pressed to find where I said he hasn't. I was merely pointing out his awfully worded statement in this thread.
He posted that he asked for lore and role play evidence four days ago and still hasn't received it. He said this in a way that made it sound like the Zoner leaders were not doing squat, when I know they are as I've gotten emails and PMs from some of them asking me to dig around for stuff for them.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Garrett Jax - 03-05-2014
Ever since I offered myself to help the Zoners, I've been sworn at, yelled at and laughed at for my efforts. I am tired of the abuse and I'm removing myself from mediation on your behalf.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Highland Laddie - 03-05-2014
@SMI-Great.Fox - so, your solution is to not only let the Zoners keep their current ships as they are, but ALSO give them a new transport as well?
I don't really see this "gap" in the Zoner shipline that you are imagining, especially considering that in addition to your snub, GB, cruiser, and BS line, and 5ker, you.also have the extensive civilian line open to you as well.
Why should any of the devs want to give Zoners more at this point, when all they do is whine/argue when any other changes get suggested/made for them? I don't think you should even be getting your own bomber (or any other new ships for that matter) unless there is some give somewhere else.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Syf - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 04:51 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Ever since I offered myself to help the Zoners, I've been sworn at, yelled at and laughed at for my efforts. I am tired of the abuse and I'm removing myself from mediation on your behalf.
At that point I wouldn't be surprised if you would remove yourself from mediation.. But nonetheless. This more or less seems like someone just got a tad bit too mad and now it escalated into a large QQ fest with no real end to it (No, I didn't mean you Garrett). Other than of course the few that actually have posted reasonable ideas on what to do with this.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Major_Mayhem - 03-05-2014
It might be prudend to point out, that we have never asked you to mediate between us and the Devs. Our Request was for a Admin decision to overrule Dev decision, as we beleived the Devs did not pay just attention to the RP and lore the proposed change would effectively retcon.
Since the Echo-7-7-event in the same channel you have been, we knew that we could never reach an agreement with Devs, as they seem poised to violate and abolish Zoner lore. Given by the fact the most recent counteroffer from the Devs is complete and utter disarming of the Capital ships and keeping only an excuse armament for anything supposed to survive in the harsher parts of the Sirius sector.
We have given you a large sample of what would have to be retconned from player-driven RP if the change were to come trough including wars against Zoners, which have been fought with battleship on either side. No comment. Five pages of lore about to be retconned and no comment? Then all the other stuff we've been trying to provide such as a cohesive backstory for all Zoners (there have been several good examples already) and, of course, inRP justification of how and when the Capital ships came into existence, which too fills several pages already.
You showed utter and complete disregard for everything we have provided you and yet you are here now, crying how badly we have treated you. So you're crying because Gytrash once, just once, and very understandable circumstances, I might add, called you something inappropriate, in lieu of eloquently pointing out your utter and complete disregard for everything we have provided.
Me laughing: You call it laughing, I call it epifany. For someone pointing out to a "majority of Devs", and when being asked how many Devs there were give "16 and few more" as answer, that shows a lack of understanding of basic Math and the most basic principle of democracy.
Consequently, I was actually more laughign at myself as the futility of elaborating on...ahem... more advanced topic of pilitical philosphy became evident.