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+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" (/showthread.php?tid=105401)
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - glassofwater - 09-29-2013
All this Q_Q seems to be here because a pirate told them to stop, they refused, and now want the pirates to not be able to tell them to stop. That's what I can see from all the complaining about this rule in the thread. It's a good rule, and it promotes RP as well as it can clarify who you are speaking to more so than one single word. "Bring your engines to zero clicks and prepare to be boarded!" I've used that a few times, and the RP results in fun stuff. Why not be creative? Being pirated can be fun if the pirate isn't a lolwut.
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - Agmen of Eladesor - 09-29-2013
<sigh>
Okay, time to bring out some of my old rule lawyer stuff again. (It would be so easy if that old thread I wrote when I was an admin was still around.) Anyway...
Two rules are in play here - 5.2 and 6.2
The original poster asked:
Quote:In short, do I have to make a demand for credits/cargo before engaging? Personally I think that "drop your speed to 0 or else" is a sufficient demand.
Quote:5.2 All attacks must be the result of some form of role play. "Engaging" is not sufficient. An attack is any hostile action that drains shields to less than 50%. Being hit with a CD is not considered an attack. If a player is attacked he has a right to defend himself regardless of who is attacking.
6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand, in system or local chat, and allowing sufficient time to respond. Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand, such as leaving the system. "Halt" is not a demand. You must say more than this to ask a ship to stop however you may destroy them if they attempt escape.
Govedo DID answer this question correctly in the first response.
Quote:You does not need to make demand before engaging. However you have to RP before engaging. As long as the trader is alive you still can make demand even if he lost 90% of its hull.
Let's say you as the pirate start the engagement this way: You see a trader, fire a CD at him, and while you're closing, you type, "Stop! I'm shooting!" Boom, you kill the trader. Nope, not good enough. But if you type, "Cut your engines or I'll shoot!" - then you HAVE done enough RP to start the engagement.
Presuming the silent trader decides to run at this point, you are free to start shooting at him. Take his shields down. Knock off his turrets. But you also have to give him sufficient time - and no, it's not a set in stone time, but figure anywhere from 1 to 2 minutes is plenty of time - for him to respond, and if he fails to do so AND continues to run, then kill him.
HOWEVER - if he DOES cut his engines, you MUST make a demand of him AND give him sufficient time (again, 1 - 2 minutes) to respond.
That's where the confusion comes in - you've done sufficient RP with the "Cut your engines or I'll shoot you" so you can start the engagement and actually start shooting him. You have NOT done sufficient RP to actually kill him at this point, though - no demand has been issued.
(And remember, you don't HAVE to ask simply for credits. This is a role-play server. Demand that they give you some of the regens, or that they send you over all their female crew. Yeah, I know we don't have crew - but that's part of RP. I remember one pirate who demanded a shrubbery.)
The admin team isn't looking for the pirate to spew out a document similar in length to War and Peace before destroying a trader. They simply don't want simple one or two word fake RP being used as justification for ship destruction.
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - Thargoid - 09-29-2013
So now a trader is basically home free assuming he's 1-2 minutes away from the nearest base?
I don't think that's fair. The trader should stop immediately if they don't want to be killed.
In real life, if someone with bigger guns than you tells you to stop, you do it, you don't run like a moron, because you'd be killed.
The vocal part of the roleplay should only start when the trader has stopped completely and faces whatever direction you tell them too. Like "Turn around and don't face that lane/JG".
Trading is way more profitable than pirating anyway, so why do the rules clearly favor the trader?
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - Trogdor - 09-29-2013
(09-29-2013, 03:41 AM)Agmen of Eladesor Wrote: "Stop! I'm shooting!"
Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - Agmen of Eladesor - 09-29-2013
(09-29-2013, 06:09 AM)Thargoid Wrote: So now a trader is basically home free assuming he's 1-2 minutes away from the nearest base?
I don't think that's fair. The trader should stop immediately if they don't want to be killed.
In real life, if someone with bigger guns than you tells you to stop, you do it, you don't run like a moron, because you'd be killed.
The vocal part of the roleplay should only start when the trader has stopped completely and faces whatever direction you tell them too. Like "Turn around and don't face that lane/JG".
Trading is way more profitable than pirating anyway, so why do the rules clearly favor the trader?
I highlighted the above text for a reason - they always HAVE been. All the trader has to do is simply spawn shields and thrust like away and hope like hell their shields last.
That's why your real life analogy fails - we don't have shields in real life.
And also the last sentence of your comment - that's something I mentioned in Sindy's post. We're not playing TraderLancer. If people were here simply for profit, sure - we'd all trade, all the time. But we're here to role-play as various assorted things - I like to role play people bringing bad guys to justice and a native species that's had their homeland invaded by alien life forms as my two favorite types. I also have characters that I role play as a merchant, a pirate, and I've one that is simply a guy that has a curiosity bump that he always wants to see - for himself - what's out there.
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - henriking - 09-29-2013
I read all the posts and i say that i agree to kill the trader if dont stop right away
It is normal and logic if he engage thrusters or cruiser engine he want to escape. and if he get killed when he is doing this 2 things than he should shut up and be silent after his death like he was during life and dont start saying to the pirate that he made a OORP kill.
Anyway i want to ask something that is in the same field.
When a police or a navy ask a trader to stop for inspection and the trader start runing is the police/navy is right to nuke him??
Or when a police/navy ask a pirate to stop and the pirate start runing is the police/navy right to nuke him?
I ask coz i had many cases like this specaly the second one when i ask a pirate to stop in my LABC and he start runing i shoot my dual missile and with some luck i nuke him and than the pirate say { OOO wtf are you doing OORP kill }
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - Agmen of Eladesor - 09-30-2013
(09-29-2013, 04:16 PM)henriking Wrote: Anyway i want to ask something that is in the same field.
When a police or a navy ask a trader to stop for inspection and the trader start runing is the police/navy is right to nuke him??
Or when a police/navy ask a pirate to stop and the pirate start runing is the police/navy right to nuke him?
I ask coz i had many cases like this specaly the second one when i ask a pirate to stop in my LABC and he start runing i shoot my dual missile and with some luck i nuke him and than the pirate say { OOO wtf are you doing OORP kill }
Correct. You still need to make some kind of demand - pull your ship over for cargo inspection, dump your contraband, or something along those lines. But yeah, they run from the law, you can shoot 'em.
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - mayu20 - 09-30-2013
The best thing that I think fl should have is more easy to destroy ship parts and equipement with missiles. Just shoot 1-2 cruiser/gunboat/fighter torps missile at transport engines and no more thrust for him. That would avoid a lot of shitstorms. And ofc make people invest better in the CM's. That's just my point of view.
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - cata77 - 09-30-2013
(09-29-2013, 02:35 AM)Sabre Wrote:(09-28-2013, 07:17 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I'm quite pragmatic about this, I might be breaking some rules but haven't been sanctioned (yet).
I'll start out with a "Cut your engines"/"Stop"/"Halt" depending on how much time I've got, if they do that I'll RP with them and take my time (quite often resulting in traders calling in backup but whatever); if they don't stop (even if all I said was "halt"), I shoot the trader and only stop when he starts talking and/or his ship stops moving.
If there were as many rules to force traders to play "the way they are meant to be played", just like pirates have rules to force them to play in certain ways, the sanction section of the forum would be flooded with traders.
i agree with anaximander. there needs to be a balance, because currently its not balanced. there are plenty of rules to force pirates to play "fairly" but a trader can just keep flying or respond with "//just kill me anyway".
Really ? And what is keeping you from killing him in this case ?
I agree with one fellow player before , 6 pages are a waste of time/speace on a well known "way to deal with" such situations .
RE: "Cut your engines or I'll open fire!" - Zen_Mechanics - 10-01-2013
again, curios ( cant be bothered to spell that name correctly ) being a corsair forgets one key importance.
Pirates do not kill people, terrorists do - so yes, pirate should look to keep his "salvage" rather than busting vessels - if you don't like the restrictions, apply for a terrorist ID or become a nomad, else you shall follow the rules and the so called "consequences" of it - Say more than just "stop or ill shoot" - and you should not engage just because he keeps moving, state your intentions - that's the least you can do, but I guess you dont get that do you?