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+--- Thread: Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules (/showthread.php?tid=11673)
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Eppy - 08-29-2008
Quote:The fact is, since this wasn't against the rules and similar exploits are allowed by the admins it seems very unfair to sanction people for it, more indicative of the work of a personal bias.
Maybe I'm not getting across. It IS against the rules. The Admins said so, as is their stated right, hence, it is against the rules. As blunt and two-edged as that rule is, you cannot deny that it exists and that it justifies the Admins' actions in writing.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Akumabito - 08-29-2008
' Wrote:In both normal docking and quickdocking the player is invincible, it make no difference, except normal docking takes a lot longer therefore wasting time
In PvP terms there is no advantage when quickdocking: it doesn't matter how you dock you are invincible
How many times does that need to be said before you understand: when docking, you are invincible
When you do a normal docking sequence there is a period before you enter the cutscene where you are vulnerable. That is what you avoid in a quickdock.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - tfmachad - 08-29-2008
' Wrote:No. It's not a tactic I use so I don't know the mechanics of it. I know it is used to CD people while maintain cruise speed, which is an exploit as much as ping ponging is, and it is used to leapfrog in conjunction with cruise to catch up.That's the quality of reasoning that grants you the kind of support you receive here.
You do know that there's a fully accessible command (you might want to check your game's configuration menu) that will turn off your engines? As a side effect to that, since you are traveling in vacuum (or near that), your ship will maintain its speed unless you actively pursue to stop it. It's a magical thing called kinetic energy, you might want to check on that.
[sarcasm]Some physicists try and explain it, but I say it's just an exploit, because I don't like the way it sounds.[/sarcasm]
EDIT:
You just put your hand through your mouth there, man... Or, as Friedrich would say: "The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments."
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Capt. Henry Morgan - 08-29-2008
Akuma, though I don't like your attitude, or your overall views on many things, I can't say that I disagree with you entirely on this one.
On one hand, I do agree that ping-ponging can and does disrupt RP if it's used excessively. I've done it a few times, but when I do it, I'll go through, then back once then try to cruise away before the pirate can get through. That's taking a risk for potential escape, and it often fails for me. Now, if you do it repeatedly to get the pirate to just give up, then it's abuse of a game mechanic. That, and it's not fun for the pirate at all.
The most important thing here is that people on both sides of the pirating situation (or any other RP) should be having fun. If someone isn't, then there's a problem.
Perhaps a written rule for that couldn't hurt, but like it's been said earlier, we can't have a written rule for every situation. The question to ask in those situations is, "is what the person did in line with the spirit of the rules?" In the case of JH abuse, I've got to say no, it isn't in line with the spirit of the rules.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Akumabito - 08-29-2008
' Wrote:Maybe I'm not getting across. It IS against the rules. The Admins said so, as is their stated right, hence, it is against the rules. As blunt and two-edged as that rule is, you cannot deny that it exists and that it justifies the Admins' actions in writing.
Again, it is not against the rules. If I am an admin and I say "corsair" is a cuss word and ban people for using it, I have the power (and therefore the right according to "might makes right" mentality) but that doesn't really make "corsair" a cuss word.The same is true in this case, pretending that this is a gameplay issue is not being truthful. This no more hurts gameplay than any other allowed exploit.
The admins have the power to do this sanction, but it was still the wrong thing to have done if they truly want a fair server with fair rules.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - atom - 08-29-2008
Your definatly not getting it across. that's dictatorship and the admins are answerable to the players. because they are voted in. you just can't say somethings against the rules just because you don't like it. there has to be as with any society something must be written to prove it, and if not in rules and if you wish to punish players then it has to be written into the rules as a warning.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Eppy - 08-29-2008
...umm...maybe one of us misunderstands the concept of 'against the rules'. If it says it in the Discovery RP 24/7 Server Rules, it is a rule. It states that the Admins may sanction things that are not explicitly stated in the rules, making that and resultant actions rules in and of themselves rules. Hence, as 'ping-ponging' has been sanctioned, it is against the rules. Elastic clauses are there for reasons.
EDIT:
Quote:Your definatly not getting it across. that's dictatorship and the admins are answerable to the players.
Sorry, but that's incorrect. The Admins are only answerable to Igiss, who isn't answerable to anybody as he has final rights to the mod. The vote that's issues before each Admin is sworn in is not necessary, and Admins could, should Igiss desire, be instated on his word alone. He does not have to act on the majority's wishes at all.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - atom - 08-29-2008
That proves my point. Dictatorship. so whats the point of a vote
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Akumabito - 08-29-2008
' Wrote:Akuma, though I don't like your attitude, or your overall views on many things, I can't say that I disagree with you entirely on this one.
On one hand, I do agree that ping-ponging can and does disrupt RP if it's used excessively. I've done it a few times, but when I do it, I'll go through, then back once then try to cruise away before the pirate can get through. That's taking a risk for potential escape, and it often fails for me. Now, if you do it repeatedly to get the pirate to just give up, then it's abuse of a game mechanic. That, and it's not fun for the pirate at all.
The most important thing here is that people on both sides of the pirating situation (or any other RP) should be having fun. If someone isn't, then there's a problem.
Perhaps a written rule for that couldn't hurt, but like it's been said earlier, we can't have a written rule for every situation. The question to ask in those situations is, "is what the person did in line with the spirit of the rules?" In the case of JH abuse, I've got to say no, it isn't in line with the spirit of the rules.
If you want pirating to be fun for both sides, there are a lot of things that should be done. I have had as many unfun moments pirating as trading and vica versa.
But it isn't really about fun, unless you want sanction reports for every unfun moment, it is about the rules. Is ping ponging really against the spirit of the rules? That's a judgment call. When all sorts of exploits are allowed why not one more?
That's the issue. This isn't against the letter of the rules, and despite the claim that it will it won't balloon the rules up to clarify the rules as written to match the rules as practiced. That's what a good admin would want. Clarity instead of fuzzy maybes and people second guessing what they can get away with.
Also, since it isn't a clear cut rule violation it shouldn't draw a sanction, that's why warnings are allowed. A good admin would make sure the rules were clarified to be fair to everyone before he actually imposed more than a warning in a case where there wasn't a clear cut violation.
Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules - Akumabito - 08-29-2008
' Wrote:...umm...maybe one of us misunderstands the concept of 'against the rules'.
Apparently you do, since the rule you quote only applies to actions that harm server gameplay, which ping ponging does not.
The admins have the power to sanction for any reason, even to do so on a personal grudge if they so choose, but in this case there was no rule violation no matter how you change the meaning of the words in the rules to pretend there is.