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+--- Thread: Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes (/showthread.php?tid=12474)
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - teschy - 09-26-2008
' Wrote:As for jump holes, ageira specifically states that they are unstable. It isnt unreasonable to assume that jump holes, especially in these inhospitable areas, are constantly collapsing and reopening in new locations. Unlawfuls are in these areas of space almost 24/7, so they keep track of where the jump holes pop up and where they lead. Lawfuls wouldnt have access to that knowledge.
Then apparently the navy doesn't give a damn about sending entire fleets from Virginia through that jump-hole and across Liberty. Same goes for the other lawful guard systems, it's pretty irrational. Why not replace them with proper jump-gates?
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Srkad - 09-27-2008
' Wrote:You're not getting the point Tenacity, and Noobius.
There are FAR fewer JUMPGATES than there are JUMPHOLES.
If you encourage the split-thinking of JH = unlawfuls, Vs JG = Lawfuls, then you straight away make
many lawful traders unable to use JHs. Having this split-thinking would instantly kill the entire economy
of the border worlds, and many many trading factions, not to mention the Kusarian unlawful/lawful
groups that are in both or either depending on your side.
I'm not talking about the border worlds, obviously these jumpholes are necessary for the traders to use. Most people who venture out into the border worlds are brave enough to try to use the jumpholes. Im talking about within the house systems. There is no reason what so ever for any lawful's to use the jumpholes. The jumpholes within the houses were put there specifically for the pirates to get around without being detected by the navy, police, bhg, etc.
EDIT: And guard systems arent really for RP...so jumpholes there make sense.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Agmen of Eladesor - 09-27-2008
' Wrote:Now, I dont mind bounty hunters using these tactics - even though 90% of bounty hunters on this server are capwhores and are only interested in pvp. Further, bounty hunters shouldnt be policing unless a house-wide bounty for smugglers or pirates has been officially posted by lawful forces in that house. Regardless, most bounty hunters are ex-criminals, so they know the location of these jump holes and hidden areas/bases. This is inherent by the bounty hunter fighter patrols you often see directly outside of unlawful bases, in skirmishes with unlawful npcs there.
Those of us that play bounty hunters correctly - S/D recruiting page - are in the 10% minority, although we're working on getting that percentage increased.
I agree with the basis of your poll, but at the same time, there are some holes in it.
In Bretonia, for example, there is a cluster of jumpholes from Leeds to New London, Cambridge, and Dublin. Does the Bretonian government and military know about those holes? You bet. Can they - or anyone - really do anything about them? Not hardly.
So certainly someone being pursued in Leeds could have a navy pilot following after him, with someone trying to 'head him off at the pass'. (The game already has FTL radio, so that's part of the mechanics.)
The pirate jumps into Cambridge, and immediately takes the JH to Omega 3. Would the police pursue through the first JH into Cambridge? Probably - and maybe also into Omega 3. But just because the authorities almost certainly also know about the JH from Omega 3 into Omega 5 - there's no way they're going to continue after him at this point. For one thing, he's out of their jurisdiction at this point, rules of hot pursuit or not. For another, they don't know what's waiting for them on the OTHER side of the JH into O-5 - and thus, they shouldn't go there.
I also see the propoganda as being spread about JH's from Ageira as being similar to the effect of transit lanes in the David Weber Honor Harrington series. JH's are out there - but even if they are stable, are you sure about where you're going to come out? Secondly, are you going to risk all those big ships just in case? Not hardly - the ships are supposed to be huge investments in time and money for governments and players alike - regardless of the minor detail that a few days of power trading by any player can earn you enough to buy a battleship.
Seriously - you're probably talking somewhere in the reality of between 9 months and 2 years of actual work from the time you place an order for a ship and the delivery of said ship. Are you really going to risk that on an unknown JH? Not hardly...
Certainly freelancers come into play in the game, as they take their ships and go out and explore. The survivors would then sell their information to both lawful and unlawful authorities for money. So chances are, all the house navies have somewhere in their files the locations of all the jumpholes in the galaxy that have ever been found. They're called military secrets, and Joe Cop on the corner isn't going to have it, because it's how they're going to send their navies if they ever have to invade their neighbor due to an act of war.
(Seriously - I'm going to invade you by coming through this jump gate that you know where it is? Not happening, folks...)
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Doom - 10-11-2008
i didn't read whole thread (lack of time atm), but this is delicate matter....
if lawfulls chase unlawfulls and they run towards that secret JH are they supposed to ignore that?...
Main goal of that unlawful should be to keep that JH position a secret even at the cost of their lives...so if baddie runs towards it while being chased by a goodie, he is OORP too...in that case if goodie ignores that JH then he is oorp too...
matter if they should abort chase after the baddie jumps is in the goddies court, but baddie showed him the secret JH...goddie didn't find it alone...
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Tenacity - 10-11-2008
Quote:Main goal of that unlawful should be to keep that JH position a secret even at the cost of their lives...so if baddie runs towards it while being chased by a goodie, he is OORP too...in that case if goodie ignores that JH then he is oorp too...
matter if they should abort chase after the baddie jumps is in the goddies court, but baddie showed him the secret JH...goddie didn't find it alone...
The jump holes i'm primarily referring to are all in dense debris or asteroid fields, or nebulas. These environmental conditions should be the first deterrent to the lawful forces in a chase, both because they're hazardous to fight in and because sensors dont (in rp) operate in them. A lawful might want to catch a bad guy, but he should never risk his own life or that of his wingmen by knowingly going into an area where he's at an extreme disadvantage.
It really irks me to see LSF/LPI/LN in the badlands, or BAF/BPA in the smog clouds of bretonia, or RM/RFP in the debris fields of rheinland, or KNF/KSP in kusari's nebulas. Unlawfuls are, in every way, at a disadvantage compared to lawfuls here, both in RP and out. Lawfuls have bigger ships, higher populations of players, generally better weaponry, and more organization - the only thing that unlawfuls have on their side is dirty tactics and the cover that these debris fields or nebulas provide, along with the jump holes that lie inside them to get the unlawful out of the system.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Patriot - 10-11-2008
Everyone should be able to use it,Afterall lawfull faction are able to do mapping to.......
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Nightmouse - 10-11-2008
' Wrote:Everyone should be able to use it,Afterall lawfull faction are able to do mapping to.......They would indeed, but remember, Jump Holes are unstable and usually disappear, only to reappear somewhere else nearby (in RP), meaning unlawfuls would find the new location faster. Lawfuls on the other hand can't send a ship into pirate territory everytime they suspect the JH has collapsed.
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - hack - 10-11-2008
As a trader, If I get sold the info about a jump hole, I don't think I am going to just forget about it. Mon*star was in the Leeds system today on a murderous rampage. Thanks to some jump holes I know about, he didn't kill me, but several others in the system weren't so lucky. I would rather take my chances with the unlawfuls around a jump hole than a terrorist.....
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Klaw117 - 10-11-2008
I voted it's OORP. My LSF char will never use a JH unless he's pursuing someone. Going into debris or asteroid fields are fine, but particle nebulas that jam your scanner is a big no no. The farthest I'll go into, say, the Badlands would be 5k. I would take the intra-system JH in NY if a criminal went through it, but after that, I would not go farther than 5k away from the JH. Same for Ithaca Research Station. If I go 5k away, I turn back. After that, I would say something like "Breaking off pursuit, target has fled into unsafe territory." One question though, would I have to leave the system for doing that? Could it be considered that I fled a fight?
Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 10-12-2008
No, if they're running from you to ithaca, then you stop persuing, your fine.