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+--- Thread: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields (/showthread.php?tid=128512)
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Garrett Jax - 04-17-2015
Didn't stop the LSF from getting in, did it?
I would suggest then, for the Xenos to file a Player Request to the Admins, explaining to us how that POB is harming server gameplay.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lythrilux - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 05:48 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Didn't stop the LSF from getting in, did it?I believe that LSF were neutral to the base when they jumped in the first time.
(04-17-2015, 05:48 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: I would suggest then, for the Xenos to file a Player Request to the Admins, explaining to us how that POB is harming server gameplay.
.j. 32.11:51:59
JM- 8.19:13:45
XA- 20:09:44
It doesn't really take a player request to spot that there's a problem. It's pointless going after Congress and other Junkers as Xenos because they either run straight to Puerto Rico as soon as they're spotted, whereby they become invincible due to the POBs, or they're already in Puerto Rico by the time a Xeno logs in, thus any sort of pursuit at all is pointless. JM tends to spend more time out of the Xenos ZoI, but even when we're in Liberty Xenos are sparse. It's really sad because there are times when we'd log on to go shoot a Xenos, but by the time we get there it's already getting ganked by 999 other things, so we tend not to bother.
When one NPC faction's official factions are insanely active, with one of them being the most active faction on the server and their enemy NPC faction has such little activity that their officialdom is at risk, then you know there's a problem.
Oh well, I guess someone can poke Quinn to make a player request if it's absolutely needed.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Garrett Jax - 04-17-2015
Xenos have rarely had strong activity. Blaming it on a POB that you, as JM- don't like, is hardly convincing.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Pavel - 04-17-2015
#lyth #rekt
))
On topic, isn't it a bit silly to move fields around, instead of POBs?
Edit: And while I understand the reasoning behind moving some POBs around, they were built while they cou
ld be built in those problematic places. Maybe their owners should be offered some compensation now?
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lord.MacRae - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 12:34 PM)SpaceTime Wrote: Thanks everyone for their input. It seems there are two main groups on this discussion, the people who own or make use of those PoBs and don't want anything to change and the other side is the rest of the community.
I believe you wanted to say:
Thanks everyone for their input. It seems there are two main groups on this discussion, the people who own or make use of those PoBs like miners, suppliers, owners, ore customer, producers, equipment customers, newbies who are impressed and stay in the game because they want to help with the base. On the other side the pirates who do not have an easy life because there is a little area in the whole universe where they can not hurt someone easily and don't want to change everything to be adjusted to their RP fading out other ideas.
(04-16-2015, 09:32 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: You're not going to get any points comparing a futuristic sci-fi game to real life.
Perhaps not from you but from unprejudiced people. You did not understand that I just wanted to demonstrate the "logic". Treasure -> envious person -> as much protection possible. Also just because it is a futuristic sci-fi game there is no reason for it to be illogical or why it has to be forced to be illogical.
(04-16-2015, 09:32 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Traders/Miners shouldn't have it easy when it comes to making a profit ...
You do not want to let any good thing count and just see the things you do not like. I think when you would try to think twice you will see that a base filled with ore attracts haulers and they are flying long ways where you could hurt them everywhere. What makes more activity? A lonely miner in a field where you can quickly kill him to have your fun. Or many haulers, one after another, with them you could have fun all day.
Furthermore NOT the miners are the reason for a base in a mining area to be profitable. Just filling a base with ore and the owner of the base having to pay for it would be a stupid idea. Without many many haulers there would just be an ore filled base. Perhaps the owner could drop the ore into space sometimes and then could deposit new cash on the base for the miners to be able to mine and sell again, but how long will the owner do that? Again, there have to be many transports filled up with 5000 tons of ore and when you manage to hurt them instead of a lonely miner you could demand more and more ofthen.
(04-16-2015, 09:32 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: 6. Get destroyed by 9999999 weapons platforms.
I can build that many? Cool!
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lythrilux - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 05:59 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Xenos have rarely had strong activity. Blaming it on a POB that you, as JM- don't like, is hardly convincing.Me as JM- don't like? Say what? How does that factor into it? From a JM perspective I really don't care about those POBs, although Congress did set them to hostile to us once and that was a very irritating afair. Regardless, as JM I couldn't care less. Personally I've actually used those POBs to buy stuff off and to dock my Rogue Cruiser in the past for repairs.
From a Xenos perspective however (I'm also in XA, joined before I made JM fyi) those POBs are harmful for gameplay. As I said earlier in this thread, if the faction in question would take out their Arbiter to defend PR instead of rely on two near-invincible POBs that'd be a lot more fun for Xenos to interact with. However, sadly that is not the case and the moment a Junker ship jumps into Puerto Rico it's absolutely pointless to pursue. Congress ships tend to loiter in Puerto Rico, so when you're searching for activity but see 5 Congress ships holed up inside Puerto Rico, there's no point logging on at all. Ask XA Garrett. We share this opinion.
So lay off the vindictive and poor reasoning as to why I believe the placement of those POBs isn't healthy.
(04-17-2015, 06:07 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: Thanks everyone for their input. It seems there are two main groups on this discussion, the people who own or make use of those PoBs like miners, suppliers, owners, ore customer, producers, equipment customers, newbies who are impressed and stay in the game because they want to help with the base.Did you know you can do all those things without having to have the POB in the mining field?
(04-17-2015, 06:07 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: On the other side the pirates who do not have an easy life because there is a little area in the whole universe where they can not carnation someone easily and don't want to change everything to be adjusted to their RP fading out other ideas.Stop with the reasoning of "Screw you! You're not allowed to play in this mining field, go play somewhere else!" It's not healthy.
(04-17-2015, 06:07 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: Perhaps not from you but from unprejudiced people.I'm not prejudiced. I'm a people person, I'm arguing after looking at both sides. My conclusion is that these POBs in mining fields are not healthy and are damaging.
(04-17-2015, 06:07 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: You did not understand that I just wanted to demonstrate the "logic". Treasure -> envious person -> as much protection possible. Also just because it is a futuristic sci-fi game there is no reason for it to be illogical or why it has to be forced to be illogical.Well, as someone graciously pointed out earlier if you want logic and realism in the mod then how about we make it so that POBs take MASSIVE damage for every minute they're in the asteroid field? Due to, y'know, the large rocks that'd be continually pounding against the station, slowly wearing away the hull and the shield?
(04-17-2015, 06:07 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: You do not want to let any good thing count and just see the things you do not like. I think when you would try to think twice you will see that a base filled with ore attracts haulers and they are flying long ways where you could carnation them everywhere. What makes more activity? A lonely miner in a field where you can quickly kill him to have your fun. Or many haulers, one after another, with them you could have fun all day.I co-own a mining POB that's not in a mining field which attracts lots of activity. They don't need to be in a mining field to generate activity.
Also jeez, what's up with all these people assuming that pirates are out in those fields to claim blues? They're called PIRATES they take part in PIRACY. The amount of haulers and miners won't change (honestly before POBs near/in mining fields we had even more activity. Mining POBs as a whole are kind of bad because they create less activity as they remove the miner-hauler interaction link. But I guess we're in too deep to ever undo that, and at least it doesn't destroy activity completely), but the amount of interactions will increase because pirates will be able to interact with their targets and escorts (if hired) can shoot those pirates.
(04-17-2015, 06:07 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: Furthermore NOT the miners are the reason for a base in a mining area to be profitable. Just filling a base with ore and the owner of the base having to pay for it would be a stupid idea. Without many many haulers there would just be an ore filled base. Perhaps the owner could drop the ore into space sometimes and then could deposit new cash on the base for the miners to be able to mine and sell again, but how long will the owner do that? Again, there have to be many transports filled up with 5000 tons of ore and when you manage to carnation them instead of a lonely miner you could demand more and more ofthen.As I explained above, the numbers doesn't change, but the interactions increase as the invincibility shield will be gone.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Stoner_Steve - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 06:01 PM)Pavel Wrote: On topic, isn't it a bit silly to move fields around, instead of POBs?
Edit: And while I understand the reasoning behind moving some POBs around, they were built while they cou
ld be built in those problematic places. Maybe their owners should be offered some compensation now?
I believe that this steams from a disconnect of what the Admins believe is okay for Sever Gameplay and what the Dev Team believes is okay for Gameplay.
Despite what has been said by all sides why doesn't the Admin team force an experiment, move those listed base 10k outside of the center of each mining field. Leave it that way for a week (or longer) and watch as nothing changes.
The purpose of the PoB are to make things favorable to the owner. This will inherently make things unfavorable to anyone who isn't the owner (or owners faction). Which leads back to my statement from earlier which is
(04-16-2015, 08:39 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: A better debate topic would be; are PoB subject to location restrictions, and why?
If we restrict the locations because of "fair play" are any of the bases considered fair play then, wouldn't the simple building of any core of a base make things unfair for someone somewhere. Its a fine line to draw, let alone toe.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Binski - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 06:21 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: From a Xenos perspective however (I'm also in XA, joined before I made JM fyi) those POBs are harmful for gameplay. As I said earlier in this thread, if the faction in question would take out their Arbiter to defend PR instead of rely on two near-invincible POBs that'd be a lot more fun for Xenos to interact with. However, sadly that is not the case and the moment a Junker ship jumps into Puerto Rico it's absolutely pointless to pursue. Congress ships tend to loiter in Puerto Rico, so when you're searching for activity but see 5 Congress ships holed up inside Puerto Rico, there's no point logging on at all. Ask XA Garrett. We share this opinion.
So lay off the vindictive and poor reasoning as to why I believe the placement of those POBs isn't healthy.
Two words...'Oyster Creek'
If it hadn't been for a mistake on the forum the XA would have successfully entrenched themselves smack dab in the middle of the Grand Negre. And due to that mistake it was not only moved, but had its core 2 upgrade pushed through what seemed to me, a little too fast. Not to mention I've never heard of any unlawful bases getting away with masquerading as Freelancer stations (even though its affiliation shows as Xenos). It became painfully obvious that there were admin connected XA players, and LPI/LSF/LN players that either wanted it there or were complacent towards its existence, even long after the forum mistake, with what I`m sure would be a claim of `balance` in doing the Xenos a favor. Basically because of an oorp mistake, that base is now untouchable, and any attempt to RP around its existence is considered 'metagaming' because any discovery of it can be accused of a meta from the original forum mistake. Will a line ever be drawn? Its quite an intricate RP set up to keep that place's Xenos connection hidden inrp from the authorities, which means they all know and play along by choice. I can' think of any other bases that get that kind of treatment.
As to PR, most guard systems are guarded at their jump holes/gates by POB's. I think the Xenos problems stem from far more than just the placement of LF. There are no Junker Congress bases protecting the Premium Scrap fields, so the Xenos don't have the aforementioned problem of being blocked from them if wanting to attack scrap miners...not being able to follow them into their guard system after the fact, is not as harmful a problem.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lythrilux - 04-17-2015
(04-17-2015, 08:18 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Two words...'Oyster Creek'You are completely misinformed. Oyster Creek was never in the middle of the Premium Scrap field. When the base's location was leaked a certain skype chat apparently caught fire with rage and was intent on blowing it up, the the admins moved it to prevent the base being blown up off the back of metagaming.
......
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - St.Denis - 04-17-2015
Quote:So it's going to become the norm for Pirates to fork out ~100,000,000 just to be able to pirate a single hauler/miner? I don't see haulers or miners paying 100,000,000 every time they want to mine in one of these POB infested mining fields. Also please, I'm not going to believe that you're able to pirate in a storm of 5 battleships weapons platforms. Furthermore it's not healthy to suggest that players should give up and go pirate elsewhere.Really? Has the Cloak suddenly become a one shot item? You also mention that you make most, if not all your money, by pirating, I am sure that you can afford the 100-150 million for a Cloak. I am equally sure that you can easily make that money back by turning up, uncloaking and doing a 5 millordie demand whilst putting the Bases Shields up.
Quote:Yep, Space is dangerous that is something I agree with. Traders/Miners shouldn't have it easy when it comes to making a profit and I don't feel that Pirates should have an easy life when making money via piracy either (though they should of course have a lot more leeway as it's harder for them)Please, as you are the one that makes all your money from Piracy, tell me why the Pirate should have more leeway? As for it being harder for them, isn't that a personal choice? I see pirates that don't seem to have a hard time unless they sit still and wait for everything to come to them (including the Navy).
Quote:Sloth is one of the seven deadly sins and we can see it personified in the forms of POBs. Please don't use your own laziness as an excuse to infect mining fields with detrimental POBs.Nice one, Your statement could be used against you, as I also believe Greed is another one!
Quote:Yes, yes you are. "I", "my", "I'm". It's all about you, isn't it? You don't have to give a toss about the gameplay on the other side of the coin, as long as at the end of the day you can still keep lining your greedy pockets.Whenever one argues against anything, they do tend to use argue from there standpoint. This also goes for the person who wrote the above quote. You have no idea, other than your own conception of why somebody else does Trading/Mining etc. You are very good at putting people in to neat little boxes. Have you ever thought that you have no clue what makes people 'tick' other than your ill conceived opinion?
Quote:In the event that the admins ultimately do move POBs within mining fields, would they do the same for POBs that sit at Jump Holes and Jump Gates?And there we have it, if the person gets what he wants, then he will go after something else. At this rate why don't we just let this person decide how the Game should be played and be done with it? This person is always, instead of just playing the Game, finding things he doesn't like and trying to get it changed.
But I digress.
I will stick my hand up with the following Base that is harming Gameplay:
Mont Blanc Storage Facility - Picardy system - GMS|
I bought the Base from somebody that didn't want it anymore - Guilty
The Base is on the edge of a Mining Field - Guilty
The Base has 1 or 2 maybe 3 Weapon Platforms - Not Guilty (it hasn't got any at all)
I quick dock when I see a Pirate - Not Guilty, I just sit there RP a little and pay my dues. This, I have also noticed, is the same with some of the other Miners (I can't speak for all of them). I have even been pirated by one of the Miners that uses the Base (on his alt character).
If the Piracy just becomes stupid (as in every 5 minutes/everytime I log in) then I will dock - Guilty
Will the Base have Weapon Platforms? - No
Gallia is a very active place - No (most people don't even waste their time there)
Does my Base create some activity in Gallia? - Yes. I have miners who fill it up and Haulers that go and sell it when I put the Base to Sell (I personally don't haul Ore). Some days there is quite a bit of activity in Gallia. This is due from the Miners/Haulers using that Field/Base. New players use this to make money so that they can get more Ships and involve themselves within the rest of the Game.
So, please tell me how my Base is harming Gameplay?
And the main reason I got involved with this argument was because my Base as added to the List. Otherwise I would have just kept out of, as I see it, another senseless Thread.
From reading this Thread, I see that the people who argue for Bases, to be in Fields, are a small minority and are generally those that have them there. The other camp are also a small minority of people. I would suggest that most of the Server's Population couldn't really care less.
And, seriously, what do any of you expect?