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+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Impossible demands? (/showthread.php?tid=134411)
RE: Unlawful demands. - Laz - 12-31-2015
I think it was a genuine question.
Rather than rant at people.
as said here
(12-31-2015, 12:30 AM)FluffReborn Wrote: @Dawson Base
All I wanted to do was a non-sided legit question about rules, because I was purely interested into such a case - notice how I even omnited about which unlawful ID I were asking. I asked to close this topic, because I had my question answered and I've learnt something new.
But no, you posted logs, attempting to do something that is trial by forum, forcing me to bring up entire situation. It wasn't my intention. At all.
RE: Unlawful demands. - The Savage - 12-31-2015
(12-31-2015, 12:40 AM)Snoopy Wrote: It was so much nicer when you didn't complain about everything, Fluff...
Original post wasn't complaint. It was question, which have been answered. But then, Dawson posted logs despite my good will to simply learn about rules.
RE: Unlawful demands. - Char Aznable - 12-31-2015
(12-31-2015, 12:37 AM)TheUnforgiven Wrote:(12-31-2015, 12:15 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: Let us back up a moment here.That's the problem man, you can't remove them without shooting them off? You can't see the difference as to how transferring cash or cargo is not the same as letting someone have to shoot at you period. Don't apologize for the limitations, recognize them and know when you're crossing the line. You may not have had trouble thus far but as you now know that only went so far without hitting a bump in the road right?
The person in question was stopped by us and told that we would be taking their guns. This is a demand with a loss to the person in a same manner that asking credits or cargo being dropped is. I think you are reading too much into how this ties in with the server rules, but are ignoring the roleplay aspect of the situation. The ship was stopped for the big baddies to disassemble their weapon systems. I am very sorry, but due to the games engine limitations, I cannot remove your guns without shooting them. But that is the point - if you had complied and sat still, just like many people before you, the guns would have been removed from you without your hull even taking a scratch.
This whole thread is rather nonsensical. It is just people trying to find something to be angry about, while completely ignoring the CONTEXT that the encounter took place in.
Are you just ignoring me on purpose? It is a Roleplay substitute for the gun (or parts of it, plating, whatever) being salvaged. That's neither lorebreaking nor in any way problematic. Recognizing the limitations would, for example, mean that we're not mining inRP anymore - we're instead shooting rocks and somehow the beams teleport our stuff in our holds. Roleplaying on Freelancer works that way.
RE: Impossible demands. - Dawson Base - 12-31-2015
(12-31-2015, 12:37 AM)TheUnforgiven Wrote:(12-31-2015, 12:15 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: Let us back up a moment here.
The person in question was stopped by us and told that we would be taking their guns. This is a demand with a loss to the person in a same manner that asking credits or cargo being dropped is. I think you are reading too much into how this ties in with the server rules, but are ignoring the roleplay aspect of the situation. The ship was stopped for the big baddies to disassemble their weapon systems. I am very sorry, but due to the games engine limitations, I cannot remove your guns without shooting them. But that is the point - if you had complied and sat still, just like many people before you, the guns would have been removed from you without your hull even taking a scratch.
This whole thread is rather nonsensical. It is just people trying to find something to be angry about, while completely ignoring the CONTEXT that the encounter took place in.
That's the problem man, you can't remove them without shooting them off? You can't see the difference as to how transferring cash or cargo is not the same as letting someone have to shoot at you period. Don't apologize for the limitations, recognize them and know when you're crossing the line. You may not have had trouble thus far but as you now know that only went so far without hitting a bump in the road right?
Although I wouldn't have made a thread on this for a while, I can't help but chime in. I think a line needs to be drawn to discourage people from treating turrets as legitimate pirate bounty and 'having no choice' but to shoot them off to get them. Do your shooting after your demands for something tangeable and aren't getting your way. The shield dropping thing is 'legite' but only to the point where again, do we need to draw the line that dropping shields is the same as a demand to stop?
I noticed you demanded both stopping and shields lowered, so the demand to stop gets adhered to under ID rules...then the demand for the shield to go down, so is that the demand? Or is it the turrets? I'm starting to get confused with all these demands to comply to that could land me shot if I don't comply. You don't see the problem with having ID rules and letting anyone who can make demands in their ZOI (for cargo and credits for that matter) just pirate for turrets and kill anyone who won't lower their shields...after stopping? Settle for what the rest of us settle for, demand something valuable, if your time is so important. If you'd demanded 10 mil from me i'd have paid it, and if I had refused, I wouldn't have complained over the outcome.
You are, once more, digging too deeply into the problem and ignoring what is obvious. The demand issued is not a demand that results in the death of the trader. This is not a demand, say, asking someone to fly into the sun, where turning down the demand would mean in your destruction and where accepting the demand would also have you meet the same fate.
The reason why we have to ask people to do this-then-this-then-this, is BECAUSE this is an unorthodox demand. If we outright asked you to ''give me your turrets'', then you would be confused. This is why with every encounter we specifically tell people that they need to stop and hold still and let us salvage their external components. We try to make it very clear WHAT is being asked from them. To halt their ship and stand still, that their guns are what is being targeted and, as you can see by the chat logs, that no harm would be done to their ship or their pockets if they do this.
Again, the reason for so many steps is to make people understand what exactly is being asked from them so that they have less chance to accidentally disobeying the demand. If we would just ask them to stop and started shooting, they would think that they are being shot and start running - not allowing us to fulfill the demand. That is why, again, we specifically tell them WHAT is being asked from them.
We are telling that so they do not accidentally get themselves killed.
RE: Unlawful demands. - Laz - 12-31-2015
I think this is turning into a rant and argue thread, question answered.
Can this be put to rest?
RE: Unlawful demands. - The Savage - 12-31-2015
FluffReborn Wrote:@Dawson Base
All I wanted to do was a non-sided legit question about rules, because I was purely interested into such a case - notice how I even omnited about which unlawful ID I were asking. I asked to close this topic, because I had my question answered and I've learnt something new.
But no, you posted logs, attempting to do something that is trial by forum, forcing me to bring up entire situation. It wasn't my intention. At all.
RE: Impossible demands? - Dawson Base - 12-31-2015
Something that should be added, if we just wanted to kill this guy, we could have done so because he did not comply to the demands. He did not disable his shield. Instead we proceeded to down the shield ourselves to shoot off the guns as we originally wanted. This is when the guy started shooting us.
Anyway. Here is the footage: Tell me how this looks from my point of view with the constant spam of oorp bull.
we don't like trial-by-forum Especially when we do start downing his shields.
I even told him to hold still before we started shooting the guns off and just downed his shields, as if to tell them that ''nobody is killing you, shut up.''
RE: Impossible demands? - Kauket - 12-31-2015
It was used as an example to show you what was right about it. The fact that the thread was created right after the incident, kind of implies it.
RE: Impossible demands? - The Savage - 12-31-2015
(12-31-2015, 12:53 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: Instead we proceeded to down the shield ourselves to shoot off the guns as we originally wanted. This is when the guy started shooting us.
I clearly stated I'm AFK to all players around, so I weren't going anywhere - wishing to continue roleplay with you. You could have waited, because you know I prefer serious RP and I don't ask ooRPly bigger boys to come and defend me. You didn't. And I don't AFK right under the gun for no serious reason.
I've returned to my PC and I saw my ship being fired upon. How I was supposed to react?
RE: Impossible demands? - Laz - 12-31-2015
To be honest, i would have to side with Fluff. He couldn't see the other messages,
This is a classic case of Miss Communication.
(12-31-2015, 12:55 AM)FluffReborn Wrote:(12-31-2015, 12:53 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: Instead we proceeded to down the shield ourselves to shoot off the guns as we originally wanted. This is when the guy started shooting us.
I've returned to my PC and I saw my ship being fired upon. How I was supposed to react? Have you ever thought about it?