POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic.

POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. (/showthread.php?tid=159287)

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RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 08:48 AM)sindroms Wrote: Please consider and discuss the following possible alterations/changes.

1. We outright forbid making POBs an X distance from any given mining field, regardless of core level. Any existing POB is either moved or refunded to the owner/s.
2. We remove the attack deceleration requirements from bases inside of mining fields, allowing anyone to destroy such new bases on a whim.

The "cant advance beyond core 2 if within 15k" rule could simply be changed to the yellow part in the rules I proposed in the quote below.

The explanations could be added in from of spoilers to make things easier for admins. There could also be additional incentives that allow/encourage factions to manage base building in a less harmful way in the discussion I started a week ago here.

(02-16-2018, 04:56 AM)Karlotta Wrote: 5. Player Owned Bases

5.1 Dealing more damage to a Player Owned Base (POB) than needed to prevent a ship from docking must be preceded by forum roleplay and a post in the Attack Declaration Thread at least 8 hours (core 1 bases) or 24 hours (core 2 and higher) prior to the attack. Attack declarations are valid for 2 weeks.

5.1 Explanations
No attack declaration or roleplay are necessary before attacking and destroying POBs closer than 15k distance to a mining zone.

5.2 No roleplay is required prior to building a Core 1 base, but it must make sense in roleplay. Name, location and IFF of bases are permanent and can’t be changed after construction. Core upgrades have requirements listed in the "Player Owned Base Upgrades" forum thread. POBs may not be built closer to mining zones than 20k.

5.3 POBs are destructible and not safe when unprotected. It's recommended you inform yourself about House laws and fees and local diplomacy before construction. POBs in systems bordering House space may not be engaged by House forces for lack of payment of fees, but can still fall prey to other factions. POBs built closer to a mining zone than 20k will be destroyed without warning.

(03-21-2018, 08:48 AM)sindroms Wrote: 3. If players start whining about their property - move the field instead.

lol

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - sindroms - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 01:59 PM)Karlotta Wrote:
(03-21-2018, 08:48 AM)sindroms Wrote: 3. If players start whining about their property - move the field instead.

lol

I mean, we did it before with the Kruger base, didn't we? Smile

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 02:01 PM)sindroms Wrote:
(03-21-2018, 01:59 PM)Karlotta Wrote:
(03-21-2018, 08:48 AM)sindroms Wrote: 3. If players start whining about their property - move the field instead.

lol

I mean, we did it before with the Kruger base, didn't we?

Looks like it was also done in Dublin to move the gold field farther away from the pub and BMM-Goldgeist.

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Laz - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 02:01 PM)sindroms Wrote: I mean, we did it before with the Kruger base, didn't we

The Gamma-41 jumphole was also moved because of the weapon platforms

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - SnakThree - 03-21-2018

Can we remove weapon platforms or make them sustained via Munitions?

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-21-2018

After careful consideration, I think it would be best for me pirates the mod if the active mining field in Dublin was moved to the west of the race track. Or better yet, to the middle of the race track and we don't go through the impossible and overly restrictive ordeal of making new rules when we can just change the mod.

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - supatroll - 03-21-2018

I still think inhouse laws should do the job....will give the police officers in the X house more stuff to do.
But then ofc they are pirate factions that also want their share( either docking rights or bribes).Can create good player interactions too,for example X base is getting rdy to be atacked by X unlawful facion,the police/lawful faction of the system/house have that base under their protection(since the owner will be most likely civilian).Owner informs the police/lawful facion true comms that he will be atacked/robbed etc,and there we go a mini event with pvp and tons of rp posibilities.What u gusy think?

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Laura C. - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 03:29 PM)supatroll Wrote: I still think inhouse laws should do the job....will give the police officers in the X house more stuff to do.
But then ofc they are pirate factions that also want their share( either docking rights or bribes).Can create good player interactions too,for example X base is getting rdy to be atacked by X unlawful facion,the police/lawful faction of the system/house have that base under their protection(since the owner will be most likely civilian).Owner informs the police/lawful facion true comms that he will be atacked/robbed etc,and there we go a mini event with pvp and tons of rp posibilities.What u gusy think?

Speaking from my expericence, police officers are not interested in more -boring- stuff. Which is what dealing with illegal bases is in most cases and even more if it happens every week. There is absolutely no fun in reposting the same eviction notice with just changed name to fulfill RP requirement for siege and then standing in the field and shooting the base until it goes poof without any interaction with anyone both on forums and ingame. Who knows, maybe someone find it interesting, but I can say I log my RFP for entirely different stuff and this is just inevitable evil connected to role I play.

We are talking here about silent base builders mostly. Because those who do roleplay make their paperwork first with the local law enforcement and since most of them do not allow bases in mining fields, the problematic situation do not happen. Bases in mining fields are not necessary for the situation you describe. After all, law enforcers protect only legal bases, not those built illegaly in the mining fields.

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 03:29 PM)supatroll Wrote: I still think inhouse laws should do the job....will give the police officers in the X house more stuff to do.
But then ofc they are pirate factions that also want their share( either docking rights or bribes).Can create good player interactions too,for example X base is getting rdy to be atacked by X unlawful facion,the police/lawful faction of the system/house have that base under their protection(since the owner will be most likely civilian).Owner informs the police/lawful facion true comms that he will be atacked/robbed etc,and there we go a mini event with pvp and tons of rp posibilities.What u gusy think?

I think it's more an annoyance than fun for police and pirates to have to remove bases. If they think it's fun, they can build them and remove them themselves. I also think that the faster-to-kill-with-sufficient-ships balancing was intentionally introduced to make base sieges less long and boring, if I recall the early years of POBs correctly.

EDIT: ninja'd by laura.

EDIT EDIT: Maybe the attack declaration wait could be made 24 hours for all bases with the new no-mining field bases rule, to compensate.

RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Jack_Henderson - 03-21-2018

I have campaigned for "No POB closer than X k from ore field" often before.
I have always been told: "nope. Not needed."

But: It is needed!

And it needs to be done by rules because we are losing masses of players who think that it is good to build there and they have their investment trashed without them knowing any better. It's a logical move to place the POB in the field, yet it is also destructive to an extent where measures need to be taken.

Therefore:

+ A warning message needs to be there to keep new players from following their instinct to build right there. The "Entering Freeport NFZ" feature could be used for that.
+ OR preferrably there should be a "no building zone" in which the deploy command does not work.
+ 20k from field minimum range or "not closer than the next dockable NPC base".

POBs close to ore fields kill off the positive impact that mining has for gameplay (centralisation, interaction, multi-player... etc etc). It creates 100 % safety for mining, which is not only boring but destroys activity cycles. Self-mining into a POB that is directly there is too powerful and kills group efforts and its positive consequences.

If these POBs are 20k from the field, the negative factors are gone.
The one positive factor remains, which is that in the low-population hours, players can still mine e.g. with a Hegemon and transport to the base. It's not OP any more, because flying 40k each time makes it a lot less attractive than it was before.

Yes, we need a fix for POB and mining.