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+--- Thread: Let's talk Gaians (/showthread.php?tid=19136)
Let's talk Gaians - Drake - 04-12-2009
@Friday, so you're saying the reason why Gaians are opposed to terraforming, even of dead planets, is to punish people for breeding too much?
Barren, lifeless planets are not going to spontaneously develop life, at least not once they're 'old' planets and well past their formative stages. No primordial ooze here. Killing people to prevent them from adding life to that dead planet because they want it to develop on its own is irrational. Being irrational doesn't make them religious, it's just religion is one of the biggest causes of irrationality on such a high level.
' Wrote:In the same way, the Gaians feel that changing a planets natural eco-system, whether it be barren or Gaia, is wrong.That makes them sound extremely religious, even if they don't call it a religion.
<snip>
The Gaians believe that all planets, in their current form are valuable, that all life in it's current form are valuable, and that altering that is taking something intangible out of the world, which cannot be replaced. Gaians just chose their values differently than you do, they are by no means irrational.
Let's talk Gaians - Marburg - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:True, but I imagine people with more pressing concerns, such as paying their rent, getting food on the table and the like, would take up other militant causes instead of the Gaian one. It seems to be a very bourgeois terrorist faction.ahhh! now I'm starting to understand your pov.
I still disagree 100% but at least now I'm starting to get it.
As I said before, I see the majority as multi-generational...so even though they may get alot of 'idealistic rich kids' from college, in my view, the majority of their number were born on Gaian stations & not bourgeois in the least & would indoctrinate the spoiled to their outlook before allowing them to fly
Let's talk Gaians - bluntpencil2001 - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:ahhh! now I'm starting to understand your pov.Being born on the station itself would be interesting. I've no idea at all how such people would behave. There would probably be interesting physical variations from people whose parents and grandparents spent their lives on space stations, and then they were born on them.
I still disagree 100% but at least now I'm starting to get it.
As I said before, I see the majority as multi-generational...so even though they may get alot of 'idealistic rich kids' from college, in my view, the majority of their number were born on Gaian stations & not bourgeois in the least & would indoctrinate the spoiled to their outlook before allowing them to fly
If the artificial gravity was a certain calibration, for instance, they might all have strange heights and proportions.
The influx of any biology specialists with Cambridge educated sorts being recrutied might have studies on short-term evolution upon their fellows who have been brought up on Islay, for instance.
Let's talk Gaians - Marburg - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:Being born on the station itself would be interesting. I've no idea at all how such people would behave. There would probably be interesting physical variations from people whose parents and grandparents spent their lives on space stations, and then they were born on them.I created the Green Hell specifically to try to give a way to explain mundane multi generational station life
If the artificial gravity was a certain calibration, for instance, they might all have strange heights and proportions.
The influx of any biology specialists with Cambridge educated sorts being recrutied might have studies on short-term evolution upon their fellows who have been brought up on Islay, for instance.
::incedently, my sig is a snapshot inside one of the areas...it's simply a huge biosphere that tries to mimic planet living::
Let's talk Gaians - Ayem - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:It's a matter of simplification, sadly. People will get a very basic overview of a faction and play it as such. This means that every indy Xeno talks like JihadJoe's, or every Molly speaks with a mangled Irish brogue (and now there's even an [IRA] unofficial Molly faction, tasteless as that is) despite the Mollys not being Irish.
While I agree on the [IRA] part- the first time I saw it was shortly after reading about the recent IRA shootings, and it annoyed the hell out of me to see it in the game- leave my Mollies alone! They speak that way because I enjoy roleplaying them that way. The Mollies are miners, like the Molly Maguires who fought exploitative conditions as a secret militant overlap with the unions. They were in America as well as Ireland, but their origins were Irish. Does that make those in America American without any Irish heritage? Whatever the heritage is, that is who you are, as well as what you do. My Mollies speak that way because it's the way their families have spoken through the generations.
' Wrote:Maybe this has something more akin to to what the modern interpretation of what Gaia is?
Maybe it suggests that all planets are their own living organism, or the potential to be so from within.
Possibly something akin to a religon almost rather than pure science, despite it being clearly based in science.
Like Gaia Theory? There is a great deal of scientific evidence that this may be the case, so it would be an attractive argument for an intellectual Gaian (of course there's evidence against, too).
I saw Sir Crispin Tickell's lecture at the University of Leicester about the subject, who is a fine old gent and seemed quite enthused by the whole thing. Now if that isn't a great Bretonian name I don't know what is...
Let's talk Gaians - bluntpencil2001 - 04-12-2009
The 'man-made wilderness' feel is a great juxtaposition, I think. It's natural, but it isn't. Very cool.
Let's talk Gaians - Zelot - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:When suicide is involved, it tends to be deemed irrational.
There are many cultures that have or do practice euthanasia, the practice of suicide when one grows old or no longer is a productive member of the community.
Let's talk Gaians - Friday - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:@Friday, so you're saying the reason why Gaians are opposed to terraforming, even of dead planets, is to punish people for breeding too much?
Barren, lifeless planets are not going to spontaneously develop life, at least not once they're 'old' planets and well past their formative stages. No primordial ooze here. Killing people to prevent them from adding life to that dead planet because they want it to develop on its own is irrational. Being irrational doesn't make them religious, it's just religion is one of the biggest causes of irrationality on such a high level.
That makes them sound extremely religious, even if they don't call it a religion.
No I am not saying that at all. It is not about reward or punishment. You breed to much, you starve - it is that simple.
But to then go on and remodel entire planets to keep this unsustainable, ever-growing, cancerous version of humanity? That is beyond irresponsible in the eyes of a Gaian.
Sounds religious? No more so than the Coalition.
Sounds fanatical? Definately!
And besides, what are you saying? That people always choose the most rational path in life - therefore no-one would choose to join the Gaians?
Let's talk Gaians - Drake - 04-12-2009
' Wrote:And besides, what are you saying? That people always choose the most rational path in life - therefore no-one would choose to join the Gaians?Not at all, I'm saying the level of irrationality shown by the Gaian belief system is on-par with the level of irrationality rarely seen outside of certain religious groups. It's the Gaian belief that lifeless planets should be left alone so that they may evolve in whatever way the universe sees fit (despite the fact that the lifeless world will never spontaneously develop life) that makes them sound religious.
Let's talk Gaians - Hawkwings - 04-12-2009
Above all, people are good at rationalizing things, even if they "don't make sense" to other people. Who cares what the individual Gaian believes he is fighting for? The fact is that the faction exists and has clear goals, and it is up to each member (or perhaps internal propaganda) to justify those goals.