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+--- Thread: Deleting systems poll UPDATE (/showthread.php?tid=196649)
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Kauket - 03-28-2023
(03-28-2023, 08:05 PM)SnakThree Wrote:(03-28-2023, 08:02 PM)Racerdude Wrote: Lets wait and see...
That's the thing. People don't want to wait and see what they fear that might happen.
Well, plans can always change - or other things happening last minute, even I don't know what's exactly intended or planned.
I do agree some some systems that doesn't really have a bigger purpose - or are just blatant guard systems - should be removed or heavily reworked, like Omicron Epilson. But I don't necessarily agree that trimming down the game is a good thing, we do need that atmosphere of being able to explore space. Gets too claustraphobic of seeing the bland same old, same old. Variety is good.
But some may think too much content is bloat, I'd disagree, if it was linked carefully, these optional places can be just longer routes that aren't gonna act as an annoyance for interaction. Like Initial omega-48 was disasterious with how huge it was and having like 8 jumpholes to different systems in it - that was an example of bad implentation.
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - TheSauron - 03-29-2023
(03-28-2023, 08:02 PM)Racerdude Wrote: Lets wait and see...
The problem with that approach is that, once we actually wait and see, it's a done deal that hardly ever gets reversed, no matter the following uproar. I'm not really surprised to see people up in arms about it before the patch hits, as that's realistically the only time frame one can expect any sort of course correction. Once it's in, well, you better pray for a new dev team to wipe it out cause otherwise it's here to stay.
At least that's how it used to be so far. Maybe we'll be in for a nice surprise this time, should the changes turn out to be overwhelmingly unpopular.
x
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Saronsen - 03-29-2023
(03-28-2023, 08:05 PM)SnakThree Wrote:(03-28-2023, 08:02 PM)Racerdude Wrote: Lets wait and see...
That's the thing. People don't want to wait and see what they fear that might happen.
wait and see
you wait and you see they do whatever they want
im tired of waiting and seeing
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Czechmate - 03-29-2023
Ontario is a great example - they are leaving it in because two devs play there even though it's a useless and boring filler system with very low activity nobody would even notice if it's gone but them two.
It's the same with Bretonia and useless abandoned filler systems like Poole. They are in no danger because it's a Dev's house and he's used to playing there.
But they cut down Xi with Munich without blinking because none of the decision making Devs ever set foot in there in-game despite almost the entire active cap PvP population playing in those system and stories events behind those interactions revolving around Xi specifically.
They don't care about the players, unless the players are them ( those that still even ever play that is)
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Sam101 - 03-29-2023
(03-29-2023, 08:06 AM)Czechmate Wrote: Ontario is a great example - they are leaving it in because two devs play there even though it's a useless and boring filler system with very low activity nobody would even notice if it's gone but them two.
It's the same with Bretonia and useless abandoned filler systems like Poole. They are in no danger because it's a Dev's house and he's used to playing there.
But they cut down Xi with Munich without blinking because none of the decision making Devs ever set foot in there in-game despite almost the entire active cap PvP population playing in those system and stories events behind those interactions revolving around Xi specifically.
They don't care about the players, unless the players are them ( those that still even ever play that is)
SSSSSSSSSSSHHH, thats a secret!!!!!
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Stewgar - 03-29-2023
(03-28-2023, 08:02 PM)Racerdude Wrote: Lets wait and see...
Somebody has to be an optimist. If things don't work out, then it's back to elite dangerous for me
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Lord Helmchen - 03-30-2023
As somone that haves a Faction who Owns a PoB in Tottori i hope there will be a Free Relocation for our Liner. I mean this is the Second time i would have to ask for a Relocatipn of our POB in the Last Year because of a Systems Change/Deletion.
If you want to have my 2 Cents on it as a Trader and RP Oriented Player then Simply make the Systems Smaler or Create Choke Points so that Pepole cant Hide from each other. But Deleting Something is never a Good Idea.
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Markam - 04-02-2023
I had questioned whether I should respond to this thread, as the thread has questionable motivations and abuses the trust placed in certain community members by leaking upcoming changes to the mod.
Before commenting on the veracity of the leak, what is more important is understanding how presenting the information in a partial, incomplete and inaccurate manner as the OP has is harmful for understanding the context of the changes and with what they accompany in the end product (the patch). At best the information is incomplete, at worst it is misleading and misrepresents what is being done.
I.e. by noting that there isn't a Bretonia system in the leaked list of no longer existing system list was either intentional to represent the information in a certain light, or shows how poorly the changes were understood. To note, Bretonia is not somehow exempt from what is being done and when the patch is actually in a presentable form and released this will be clear to see.
As for the veracity of the information being presented;
While I will not comment on particular systems within the list, it is true that Systems are being deleted next patch.
So yes there is truth to the list, but as stated above, it is all presented with no context, and speaks little to the improvements being made to other systems, as well as hides the fact that both deleted and remaining systems are to be utilized in different ways that do not disrupt the core Story/gameplay environment.
Also, for those that assume Discovery is on a downward trajectory towards fewer and fewer Systems, as if to say that Systems count is synonymous with content quantity, I can only say that with this next patch we will have handled the majority of reductions, and Systems development can finally focus on adding (hopefully) high quality systems in a non-disruptive manner that better plays to the Discovery title we have for the mod.
It must be said that the weight of years of Systems development added a great deal of complexity to the Story/gameplay environment (one that is impossible to give justice to), and in many cases Systems are barely recognizable from one another, creating a sense of sameness that helps no one feel attached to the world, and in other cases Systems served as pixel dumps, or outright broke fundamental lore by existing.
System removals have become a staple of my tenure as Systems lead, and it has been a slow grind of a System here or there being removed or merged, which has created an atmosphere of a slow death of the mod for some, the development team has taken the last year of development to turn a slow roast into a fast sear, allowing us to start new and on a positive trajectory for once.
Despite my Dr. Evil signature, I am not unapproachable and will happy engage with anyone who wants to talk about a given system or just in general. Just bear in mind I work full time and live in Japan, so response times can vary.
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - Prysin - 04-02-2023
(04-02-2023, 10:39 AM)Markam Wrote: I had questioned whether I should respond to this thread, as the thread has questionable motivations and abuses the trust placed in certain community members by leaking upcoming changes to the mod.
Before commenting on the veracity of the leak, what is more important is understanding how presenting the information in a partial, incomplete and inaccurate manner as the OP has is harmful for understanding the context of the changes and with what they accompany in the end product (the patch). At best the information is incomplete, at worst it is misleading and misrepresents what is being done.
I.e. by noting that there isn't a Bretonia system in the leaked list of no longer existing system list was either intentional to represent the information in a certain light, or shows how poorly the changes were understood. To note, Bretonia is not somehow exempt from what is being done and when the patch is actually in a presentable form and released this will be clear to see.
As for the veracity of the information being presented;
While I will not comment on particular systems within the list, it is true that Systems are being deleted next patch.
So yes there is truth to the list, but as stated above, it is all presented with no context, and speaks little to the improvements being made to other systems, as well as hides the fact that both deleted and remaining systems are to be utilized in different ways that do not disrupt the core Story/gameplay environment.
Also, for those that assume Discovery is on a downward trajectory towards fewer and fewer Systems, as if to say that Systems count is synonymous with content quantity, I can only say that with this next patch we will have handled the majority of reductions, and Systems development can finally focus on adding (hopefully) high quality systems in a non-disruptive manner that better plays to the Discovery title we have for the mod.
It must be said that the weight of years of Systems development added a great deal of complexity to the Story/gameplay environment (one that is impossible to give justice to), and in many cases Systems are barely recognizable from one another, creating a sense of sameness that helps no one feel attached to the world, and in other cases Systems served as pixel dumps, or outright broke fundamental lore by existing.
System removals have become a staple of my tenure as Systems lead, and it has been a slow grind of a System here or there being removed or merged, which has created an atmosphere of a slow death of the mod for some, the development team has taken the last year of development to turn a slow roast into a fast sear, allowing us to start new and on a positive trajectory for once.
Despite my Dr. Evil signature, I am not unapproachable and will happy engage with anyone who wants to talk about a given system or just in general. Just bear in mind I work full time and live in Japan, so response times can vary.
As someone who have been around since 4.84, i find the argument that less is more quite counter-intuitive, It only costs a few megabytes of storage space to keep the supposedly superfluous systems in the mod. It takes no calories ignoring them. and it takes almost no calories telling people that "we don't have any plans for system X at this point".
As for metrics supporting my argument. We had way more systems before, and way more players. The game is the same, the mechanics the same, we still get new people coming here, but they don't stay. So its not a "available players" issue. Its a "this mod" issue. Some of which is definitively the communities fault, however the mod itself is also a issue.
Thus, all you do is slowly boxing people into fewer and fewer systems. There is a secondary issue with this. Whilst it will certainly force more encounters. Those encounters will be just that. Forced. Traders won't meet a pirate because it happens. They will meet a pirate because its the only route they can take.
The pirate can intercept a trader every time, because its the only place they need to be concerned of. A bounty hunter or police can just park in a single system, and always score a kill.
This is a formulaic way of interacting. It is tedious and predictive. Thus, boring.
Play that is forced, is not enjoyable.
Humans do not enjoy to be forced. Even if we are forced to do the exact same thing we'd freely do otherwise. We dislike doing that thing, just because we were forced to do it.
And your biggest issue is that this game is on the internet. Everyone can see what once was, what could have been, what used to be. So pretending the past did not exist, and this is the only way just wont work. People will simply throw maps, images, videos and text disproving you.
There's also a issue of communication. This silly "secrecy". "oh yeah nobody can know what we're doing. Hiding away behind closed group chats, closed forum sections, private test servers etc... It's a rather amusing and elitist attitude, given that this development team, is also a part of the player base.
Sure, it might be the same with AAA titles, but there the devs also don't play that much on the public servers. They tend to have internal servers or public test servers to play on. For testing and fun.
There's 75-120 people still active here. The devteam is what? 8 people now? So about 6-10%... At this point, pretending to be something else then part of the community is just laughable.
Keep it up, and maybe one day, the development team will be a whopping 50% of the community. Imagine how fun it'll be then
RE: Deleting systems poll UPDATE - SeaFalcon - 04-02-2023
This is a community mod, not game development for some Early access high level thing....
talk with the folks playing and don't leak to your discord buddies.
Also, my own opinion. Lore doesn't matter in most systems since massive POBs break the immersion anyway.