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+--- Thread: Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. (/showthread.php?tid=24751)
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - Cyberanson - 08-13-2009
RP > profit
Powergamer?
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - Janus - 08-13-2009
I don't consider asking for the ability to make 20 mil an hour (what my In RP Libertonian route would make in a 4.2k) as an RPing trader when I can easily make 29+ without any RP at all, to be powergaming.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - reavengitair - 08-13-2009
Quote:RP > profit
Powergamer?
RP is good, no doubt. Profit is also good.
However, in Discovery, you can run a perfectly RP traderoute... and not really Rp with people that much.
So I do my profit route, leaving the super hardcore evil RP that lolwuts hate to my other chars. Anyway, my powertrader still RPs with everyone, and everyone asks me why I have... 1 hull bar left.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - atom - 08-13-2009
"Generic IDs were specifically reduced in cargo limits to boost the incentives of joining a corporation." Aye but not everyone want's to be in a faction trader, Sirus is vast and a lot of traders including my-self, who traded in 4.83 and 4.84 enjoyed the the no restrictions on where you could trade wish it was the same again, there seems to be too many you can't do this and you can't do that mentality about this mod, that doesn't bode well with a lot of 4.83 players, and before you go shouting if you don't like it you can go somewhere esle, I wish all the moaners about you can't do this and you can't do that would go somewhere else and let the server get back to the way it used to be. Not all change is for the good. IMHO
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - Jinx - 08-13-2009
powertrading is a term that does not so much describe the trading - but describes the ooc suspicioun that through this trading, a detrimental act is commited ( like the purchase of an expensive ship that is then abused ).
yes - trading in all forms, shapes is usually beneficial ( except such classics like harris / mc duff - but that was rather a bug and not a route )
the problem many players have with powertrading is that they project suspiciouns onto other players who they suspect to be harmful for the overall gameplay - very often that has no foundation though. - traders are indeed the bread and butter of all disco roleplay.
when there re no traders in an area, the area dies. this effect is not restricted to the actual route itself - but to the factions affected by that. - when all traders, "powertraders" as well as normal traders ( wherever the difference ) left liberty. - the liberty unlawfuls would die ( after a jolly period where they just pvp with the lawfuls for nothing much but pvp itself ) - and then - liberty would die.
HOWEVER - generic traders were cut down to encourage a stronger identification with the character. - an "independent trader" often doesn t even know what he is representing. ( often, not always ) - many a traders were trading their goods - thinking very little of what actual role they would take up in sirius other than making money and being the occasional target for pirates.
so the reason we decided to cut them down was to encourage identification. - its a chainreaction. - many groups in sirius are focussing their effords around other factions. - but an independent trader has no faction, henceforth, its hard to focus a RP about it.
here is an example:
- gaians dislike BMM, planetform and spa and cruise
- independent traders are nither here nor there. - but if 99% of the traders you see are independent, a great portion of the gaians roleplay cannot be RPed. - so they are "reduced" to common piracy.
- in order to take away from independent traders and give to other factions. - the idea was / is - to encourage more BMM, planetform and spa and cruise players - hence "unlocking" more RP for the gaians ( as an example )
now - such RP opportunities are - while exciting - of course harmful for the trader - when the trader is focussed on making money only. - so there would not be much incentive for a trader to be BMM if he can be independent.
the above is the explanation and the reasoning why we decided it was beneficial to limit generic traders.
why can we not allow the adv. train back to the generic traders? - cause the adv. train is just a generic transport with default abilities.
if for example ... the adv. train was noticably WEAKER than the house trains - such an approach could be considered. - the usual.... trading power for freedom deal.
for example - if house transports had like twice the armour and more guns and a REAL chance to kill the unorganized or lone pirate every now and then... while the adv. train would remain a "target practice". - but such a thing needs a lot of rebalancing. - thats no decision that can be made ligthly.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - n00bl3t - 08-13-2009
People in the community have recognised that new ID restrictions stop power-trading altogether. Like stopping Trader ID'd Advanced Trains from transmogrifying into Zoner Guard ID'd Zoner Whales.
As these ID restrictions have stopped power-trading, and it is not like power-traders will find a way around any rule or restriction we bring in, these restrictions must be adhered to.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - Janus - 08-13-2009
Jinx (and others),
I fully appreciate the reasoning behind putting a cargo limit on Indy Traders and I'm not after giving them access to A-Trains, again, that was the OPs idea.
However, right now, both the FL and Miner ID can trade just has well as the Indy Trader can and have other benefits to boot. Smugglers can use PTrains, Slavers can use 5ks.
Giving Indy Traders a 4200 cargo limit along with house ships of that size would, IMO, give the Indy Trader ID some meaning. Right now it's just inferior.
I've seen far more transport ships running the FL ID than I have the Indy Trader. It's easier to get, more versatile, and the 200 difference in cargo has no practical impact whatsoever.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - n1kodemus - 08-13-2009
I'd be glad if the limit could be raised to 4200, as the Smugglers can use the Pirate Train already.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - Mickk - 08-13-2009
Personally, there are some good changes that have happened from version to version and some changes that I would rather have not happened, but as a recent returnee, I have to roll with it and try and get my head around the 'new' rules.
I was kinda looking forward to flying the Container Transport (Kusari Police/Samura, 4200 cargo, 12 turrets) again, but alas, it is out of the cargo range of the Freelancer ID, not very far, granted, but far enough.
I then went looking for the X-Shuttle, another favorite ship and discovered that it had been de-fanged (class SIX forward guns?!! used to be class 8 from memory) and could no longer mount a class 10 fighter shield (at least I think thats what it had many moons ago).
Good little freighter for those who really only wanted it to keep their fighter going, very much like a bomber with a much bigger hold really.
I'd *really* like to see a trading vessel that could fight off a Gunboat or at least give one a good pasting before giving up and handing over the readies.
Independent traders limited to 3800 could there be a adaptation to this. - tansytansey - 08-13-2009
Part of the reason Trader IDs no longer support large cargos is because everyone just flew the Adv. Train and power traded. It's supposed to make more RP by giving an incentive to join a Corporation, by offering these 5000 ships exclusively to them.