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+--- Thread: Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=27022)
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Elsdragon - 09-22-2009
Those ARE the weakpoints we are mentioning
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Cyberanson - 09-22-2009
No, what you are doing is rant. Stop it. Weakpoints are logical errors or suggestions to IMPROVE our system, not to abolish it.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 09-22-2009
I am not complaining, i am merely saying that the population of rheinland will nose-dive if this is inacted.
Afterall, i have no say, as do most others, so dont get all defensive if i give you my opinion, it means little, and the fact that it contradicts yours sould be of little consequence.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Elsdragon - 09-22-2009
Alright, Here is an error.
LPI still Have their laws as is. I have talked to Zapp, It aint changing.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Jinx - 09-22-2009
here is constructive critizism from a traders point of view.
- when a pirate taxes you - it is actually a trade. - you pay for your life. - that sounds a bit silly, but thats actually the point. - you pay, you live, you refuse to pay, you die. - simple.
- when a police / military taxes you - it "ought" not to be this kind of trade. - when you pay the goverment, you expect something in return. - and the thing you expect in return is NOT that they spare your life. ( if that was it.... the goverment would be nothing but pirates )
so when you pay the military and police - you expect to be protected by pirates. - if the police FAILS for whatever reason to pay "their" side of the deal, the trader starts to feel "extorted". - and the police becomes nothing but petty pirates.
why would i point that out now?
often - for a trader, there is little difference between a military or a pirate. - someone asks him to stop, - if they don t comply, they get a CD blown into their engines. - both sides ( lawfuls and unlawfuls ) are equally impatient. - and both have a very happy trigger finger.
so - what exactly is the difference from a traders point of view?
sometimes - the difference is that you can talk to pirates and actually haggle, but when you try to haggle or inRP bribe or do anything with a police - you often get a countdown ( not always - but in my experience more often than you get it from pirates )
how can the police / navy be different to pirates? - they can - well..... work their backside off to get rid of pirates ( meaning they won t have any manpower left to tax players ) or they tax players and escort them to their destination ( very time consuming ) or they can be a lot nicer and hint them which places to avoid etc. ( if they have recon information that the lone trader might not have )
the argument that "goods come and go anyway and others are dependent" doesn t work. - many are dependent on zoner goods, too - yet, no one would roleplay an embargo. - cause it doesn t work. if zoners completely stopped delivering food to crete ( a th ing they don t do much anyway ) - the corsairs wouldn t crumble and starve - and the most important part.... NO one would actually roleplay starvation anyway!
everything is situational, everything is based on ther here and now. - a trader that got taxed by the police and feels unfairly treated will change the route. - sometimes temporarily, sometimes permanently. - players gravitate towards places that they are not "harrassed" as much ( harrassment is how it feels ). - that is for example one of the reasons that the edgeworld trade booms, while the core trade ceased.
even being stopped and asked for a fine of 10 credits is harrassment. - every such situation is a situation that the trader is put into the position of someone doing someone elses bidding, while the police / military is acting "from above".
the easiest way to achive appreciation by a trader is also a very simple one..... :
be kind, be nice. - don t patronize, don t boss them around. - not even the silent trader or the "powertrader". - that is what sets the police apart form the common pirate.
if the police is as harsh or even HARSHER than pirates........ one must not be surprised when traders actually prefer running into pirates before running into the police. - and that has nothing to do with "our roleplay suggests we are a bunch of hardened soldiers." - its about setting oneself apart.
many pirates are a lot nicer than they probably "ought" to be. - funny enough - many police officers / military officers are a lot LESS friendly than they "ought" to be.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - CCI45-px/Probe149 - 09-22-2009
It's only a question of not getting caught. Look, in my whole time on Discovery, i have been taxed 3 times. While using lanes. It's not that hard. And i made enough money to feed ~50 characters. Granted, now i only have ~20, and i sold my Battleship because i had no use for it, but i've also recently traded enough money for a Corsair Cruiser. Without getting pirated at all. And yes, my Kishiro trader does fly through New York.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Cyberanson - 09-22-2009
' Wrote:be kind, be nice. - don t patronize, don t boss them around. - not even the silent trader or the "powertrader". - that is what sets the police apart form the common pirate.Look, that's what we intend to do. Our pilots get hammered it in their heads over and over again: Be nice, helpful and patient. Normally the RM is like that. But we want something in exchange. This is respect and cooperation. If we get it, we stay that nice and helpful.
But dare to clown around. Would you insult a soldier IRL?
I was in space today and explained our situation to a trader in a very patient and nice way. He thanked me and proceeded. No problem with that. Any even if you refuse to pay: you are free to return and do whatever you like outside Rheinland.
All this should be, is another opportunity to bring some RP to Rheinland. The border now is open in one direction... feel free to use it. I cannot speak for the LPI or the LN. Just try it out.
We will do our best to RP this as good as we can. Common sense is of big importance in Rheinland, as most of you know.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Colonel.Tigh - 09-22-2009
did i read it wrong or did you, this is about the Liberty border, and has nothing to do with the other borders.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - Elsdragon - 09-22-2009
He HALF opened the liberty border, and taxed ALL of the Borders. Make sence?
All It really is, Is saying to the Smugglers(yes, they are still smuggling, the LPI will still Enforce their end.)
" Pay us to look the other way, or die"
EDIT: Most traders , Lawful Anyway, Do Not gain a single thing, and thus, Lose more.
Rheinland Taxation Feedback and Discussion - cmfalconer - 09-22-2009
I, for one, will still trade with Rheinland. Sorry Bowex boys, but I just don't care that much about 1/2 mil.
What I expect in return is something that Jinx mentioned. Escort the trader to his destination and back. Just go to the edge of your territory. That's really all you're responsible for anyway.
Yeah, that makes the Military an escort service (no watsas, not that escort service). Or the police. That's what I will be expecting for my 600k I'll be paying each trip back-and-forth to Rheinland, an escort to Augsburg and back to at least the O7 jumpgate.
THAT, dear friends, gives the RM someone to RP with, and also doesn't make the trip so lonely.
@Elsdragon: Now to you who just can't seem to comprehend and extrapolate, I'll spell it out for you. RM doesn't give a rat's @$$ what the LPI does with their side of the border. The RHEINLAND MILITARY is making it's border accessible. How you get there is your problem. clear now?
RM isn't trying to powerplay, they're trying to breath some life into Rheinland. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. every single person b*tching about getting pirated 3-4 times a trip...see above. The RM doesn't CARE what happens outside it's borders, in RP. *gasp* yeah. in ROLEPLAY, the RM isn't really responsible for you being pirated near Freistadt. Take it up with the IMG. Wait, that'll work at Aland too. Hmm...something else for IMG to do...patrol their space. Mining isn't everything.
Either way, everyone who's crying out about the 3-5% tax (20m profit w/ 600k in taxes) is jumping insanely close to a powertrader after his credits. Will my CHARACTER grumble about it? Hell yeah. will his fingerprints be impressed on the credits he's passing? Absolutely. Will I expect my safety through Rheinland? uh huh.
Will I still go there? Yup.
edit: Back at Elsdragon: No, I really don't see anywhere in the code that the RM is going to blow up you're transport. What I do see is they will expect you to turn around and go back the way you came. whinge somewhere else.