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+--- Thread: Emergency Defense Group Enterprise (/showthread.php?tid=61114)
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 06-10-2011
' Wrote:Bounty hunting is a secondary role of the EDGE.
Then why the hell do you want to use the Bounty Hunter ID? -.-
Sounds to me like you're Mercs more than Bounty Hunters. Which, given that you're not going to be able to be both official and using the Bounty Hunter ID, should serve as an indication of how to proceed I think.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Jack Payton - 06-10-2011
' Wrote:I am still waiting for your group to claim on some bounty board for the SW junkers you killed in Magellan few days ago.
I take it you're member of this group. One of your colleagues asked me afterwards why you were attacked. I answered honestly that I frankly don't know. But we were hired by Bretonia Police Authority on the spot to eliminate you and we were paid afterwards. Neither assisting lawful forces nor performing bounty given on the spot requires any documentation on the forum. You may inquire Bretonia Police Authority why they have attacked you or whether they hired us to assist them. If you don't believe this explanation, feel free to post a sanction report. As always I am keeping server logs always for a month at least in this paranoid society. Maybe even have some screens.
' Wrote:Then why the hell do you want to use the Bounty Hunter ID? Sounds to me like you're Mercs more than Bounty Hunters. Which, given that you're not going to be able to be both official and using the Bounty Hunter ID, should serve as an indication of how to proceed I think.
Well, I don't see much merit in this reasoning because it is based on a false premise that there is actually any significant difference between mercenaries and bounty hunters. Both are limited to fulfilling bounty contracts. The only difference lies in mercenaries being able to fulfil also unlawful contracts. That is why the ID itself is only the issue because of technical limitations.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 06-12-2011
' Wrote:Well, I don't see much merit in this reasoning because it is based on a false premise that there is actually any significant difference between mercenaries and bounty hunters. Both are limited to fulfilling bounty contracts. The only difference lies in mercenaries being able to fulfil also unlawful contracts. That is why the ID itself is only the issue because of technical limitations.
There is actually quite a significant difference between bounty hunters and mercenaries. Bounty hunters hunt bounties... Obviously. Mercenaries on the other hand are hired soldiers, often used in lieu of an actual military force (the sort of thing non-house groups would rely on I'd imagine).
EDGE strikes me as more of a PMC than a bounty hunter organisation, and saying that hunting bounties is not your main goal, rather providing military assistance to groups like the IMG, pretty much makes you mercenaries, not bounty hunters, which makes the Mercenary ID, IMO, the most appropriate.
To further emphasise the difference, read these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_hunter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary
And with regards to the ID, nothing says you cannot be hired as a group to provide military aid. For example, the IMG could pay you 100 mil to kill any Outcasts you find in t23, then I believe you're legitimately permitted to go and kill any Outcasts you find in t23 in compliance with the contract. The Mandalorians have been doing stuff like that for ages.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Jack Payton - 06-12-2011
' Wrote:There is actually quite a significant difference between bounty hunters and mercenaries. Bounty hunters hunt bounties... Obviously. Mercenaries on the other hand are hired soldiers, often used in lieu of an actual military force (the sort of thing non-house groups would rely on I'd imagine).
EDGE strikes me as more of a PMC than a bounty hunter organisation, and saying that hunting bounties is not your main goal, rather providing military assistance to groups like the IMG, pretty much makes you mercenaries, not bounty hunters, which makes the Mercenary ID, IMO, the most appropriate.
To further emphasise the difference, read these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_hunter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary
And with regards to the ID, nothing says you cannot be hired as a group to provide military aid. For example, the IMG could pay you 100 mil to kill any Outcasts you find in t23, then I believe you're legitimately permitted to go and kill any Outcasts you find in t23 in compliance with the contract. The Mandalorians have been doing stuff like that for ages.
You're obviously right. I did not understand you the first time. I even pointed out the difference between EDGE and official BHG (not Core) that boils to the same thing. BHG is a lose association of lone wolfs, while EDGE is meant to be an army for hire. So in fact we are more mercenaries than bounty hunters. What I meant is that in Discovery the BHG ID and Mercenary ID are almost identical, with only lawful alignment and access to capital ships being exclusive to BHG. Also, mercenaries like Reavers or Mandalorians are more like amoral bounty hunters than mercenaries . They don't usually get into full scale wars like those between Bretonia and Kusari or Liberty and Rheinland. I think the only time when Reavers were waging some sort of full scale war was when Colonial Remnant hired them to make raids on Omicron Alpha. But inRP they are just a squad of several ace pilots, not an entire army. So while in fact they can perform successful raids on Alpha or Gamma, inRP their numbers should be comparable to a one or two squadron of fighters. Something, that is not considered a tactical threat by a state.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - SpaceTime - 06-12-2011
' Wrote:There is actually quite a significant difference between bounty hunters and mercenaries. Bounty hunters hunt bounties... Obviously. Mercenaries on the other hand are hired soldiers, often used in lieu of an actual military force (the sort of thing non-house groups would rely on I'd imagine).
EDGE strikes me as more of a PMC than a bounty hunter organisation, and saying that hunting bounties is not your main goal, rather providing military assistance to groups like the IMG, pretty much makes you mercenaries, not bounty hunters, which makes the Mercenary ID, IMO, the most appropriate.
To further emphasise the difference, read these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_hunter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary
And with regards to the ID, nothing says you cannot be hired as a group to provide military aid. For example, the IMG could pay you 100 mil to kill any Outcasts you find in t23, then I believe you're legitimately permitted to go and kill any Outcasts you find in t23 in compliance with the contract. The Mandalorians have been doing stuff like that for ages.
The EDGE, till the moment we speak, are one of the groups which are signed up in the IMG Board and claims bounties on behalf of the IMG. They have no special status to regard them as IMG's private army, they just do that exact thing like any other group/individual there.
However, since bounty hunting is their secondary role, I would like to see them talking to the factions they are working for and presenting them defence contracts since this is their actual (primary) job.
About ganging, etc: Even though I have seen some EDGE fights, I will refrain from commenting on that subject till I see more.
Oh and yes, Montezuma is right. Lawful Mercenary ID suits you the best :laugh:
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Vladimir - 06-12-2011
Just wondering. Do you guys fly Council battleships around Tau-23? I heard rumors.
Other than that, when i hear "EDGE", i think "counter-strike in space". Soru but no matter how good the writeup is, your caps loling around wasn't nice, and when you get fighters, you tend to outnumber your targets at least 2:1. At least. At least that's what i've seen. Perhaps somewhere, in the magic land of, say, Gallia, interactions with EDGE are fun and nice, but all the times i've fought you in the real world your group doesn't provide me with the level of interaction required from any official faction.
UPD: Well, one might say that the ganking and refilling is here to compensate for low skill of your members. Maybe, but it's not the valid way of compensating. Last time i saw you around omegas, i was jumping into o-7 to see 3 edges engaging lone hessian. And then more of you came. And then 3 of you died, but that's not the point. Point is - lrn2fairplay unless you want holywar, and if you're alright with holywars, good, but that's not the way to get official. And the Omega-7 event feedback - you can easily find that yourself and think.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Daedric - 06-12-2011
' Wrote:What I meant is that in Discovery the BHG ID and Mercenary ID are almost identical, with only lawful alignment and access to capital ships being exclusive to BHG.
Actually you seem to forget the fact that the BHG ID comes with preset diplomacy. That in itself is a fairly powerful dividing line between the two IDs. As has been said, the Mercenary ID suits you guys better than the Bounty Hunter ID. Your past and present role play supports your use of the cap ships, go work out a deal with the Bounty Hunters Guild to get access to their technology, if and when you become official I assume your cap ships will have Spec Ops IDs to show they are an SRP type ship.
' Wrote:J and when you get fighters, you tend to outnumber your targets at least 2:1. At least. At least that's what i've seen. Perhaps somewhere, in the magic land of, say, Gallia, interactions with EDGE are fun and nice, but all the times i've fought you in the real world your group doesn't provide me with the level of interaction required from any official faction.
Point is - lrn2fairplay unless you want holywar, and if you're alright with holywars, good, but that's not the way to get official. And the Omega-7 event feedback - you can easily find that yourself and think.
Two to one odds isn't a gank, and nor is it bad. Many many official factions use those odds daily. As for your comment about fair play, what is fair play? Fair play is objective. You claim they don't offer the level of interaction required by any official faction but many official factions, at least the combat ones, receive the very same feed back you've QQ'd here and they are official. I don't see the admins going after them with knives either.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Knjaz - 06-12-2011
' Wrote:(skipped)
However, since bounty hunting is their secondary role, I would like to see them talking to the factions they are working for and presenting them defence contracts since this is their actual (primary) job.
About ganging, etc: Even though I have seen some EDGE fights, I will refrain from commenting on that subject till I see more.
Oh and yes, Montezuma is right. Lawful Mercenary ID suits you the best :laugh:
This is an opinion of the regular EDGE member and does not represent the position of EDG Enterprise.
Well, afaik, there were attempts to sign a Defense contract with the IMG for the Taus, but they either failed or being ignored, since IMG wasn't interested in it (or due to some other reasons). At least it was so back then.
We all do look forward to making such things, since it definetly suits EDGE more then the regular bounty hunting.
Also, you do get tired of it over time, as some BHG| members pointed out before. (Especially when one has to spend 2 hours on organising all screens and posting claims made during 3 last engagements, like today.... )
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Petitioner - 06-13-2011
My opinion, not the ones of EDGE blahblahblah
We tried to sign EDG deployment contracts with a lot of people, we were basically told "lol gtfo" by everyone except for Daumann, and they renounced their officialdom under somewhat dubious circumstances, only to reform a few weeks later. We're working on something with the IMG|, but since nobody is permitting us to fulfill our roleplay, we're having some fun in the meantime. Chill.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Jack Payton - 06-13-2011
I would like to thank every one for their positive input. Our recent larger scale skirmishes in Tau-23 resulted in new negotiations with IMG. We hope that finally we are close to a contract.
Well, I am not sure whether it as a poor attempt at giving a sarcastic comment or just complete ignorance. In either case motivation behind your comment is more than obvious.
Once again your perspective is limited. Not that I suspect you for any bias, of course not. I have shown the same links to Vito. In all mentioned cases our forces were fighting while outnumbered. Sometimes even ganked, and despite of all odds survived and claimed kills. I really don't have time nor patience to search for more examples, but I can tell you that those are not exceptions. Check our bounty databases for yourself.
2 EDGE fighters against 3 Corsair fighters in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 1 Corsair fighter and 2 Corsair cruisers in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 2 Corsair turret gunboats flying in formation in the open space
3 EDGE light gunships against 4 Hogosha bombers, 5 Hogosha fighters, one AI cruiser and one KNF destroyer (not that there was some reengagement on the opponents' side)
1 EDGE gunboat against 3 Liberty Rogue and Outcast bombers
1 EDGE bomber against 2 Liberty Rogue bombers and 4 Liberty Rogue and Outcast gunboats
Once again, you have very limited perspective. Skill of our members vary. Beyond any doubt we have several skilled players and some less experienced ones. But I think this is not a topic for discussion here. You're referring to our operations in Omegas. Well, I think I can tell you something about them, as I was the first EDGE member who arrived to Omegas in the end of February. The first ship I brought to Omega-7 to asses piracy levels and possible profits was a Bottlenose. Quickly it became obvious that due to heavy presence of pirate gunboats there Bottlenoses were not fit for lone operations. So we had withdrawn them. Instead we sent three Orcas to Omegas to work for Kruger Minerals. Shortly after we also registered on DHC bounty board and started to visit Omega-11. What happened next was really hilarious. My first skirmish with Red Hessians looked like this. My single gunboat entered Omega-11, found a bomber pirating a DHC miner and in a minute later my single gunboat barely got alive out of Omega-11 when a battleship, two cruisers, bomber and two fighters were trying to blow me up. My second lone visit to Omega-11 in similar circumstances while trying to save a DHC Hegemon I ended up in being blown up by two gunships and two bombers. We had only three or four really active members at that time, so we decided to never go alone to Omega-11. We took three Orcas to Omega-3 to attack Red Hessians there and it turned out to be a really bad move as three cruisers and a gunship jumped on us. I was blown up, but rest of us barely got alive out of there. So we decided to bring Threshers to Omega-11. It worked out first time. The second time our two Threshers were just swarmed by two battleships and two cruisers. So we decided to bring battleships. But it didn't even worked the first time. Two crappy battleships can't do a thing against other two crappy battleships supported by three cruisers. Situation was hilarious as we simply had only three or four active members back then and we simply stood no chances against a coalition of forty or more players. But there was not a single cry from our side. Why there should be? Red Hessians while ganking us mercilessly raised up the difficulty level very high. Each victory was rewarding. After DHC dissolved we moved most of our capital ships out of Omegas. You're referring to event in Omega-7. I wasn't there, but have been informed about it. It is curious those who express similar opinions to yours have a pretty selective perception. Seeing enemies withdrawing from the fight and resupplying, while not seeing friends that are just sending two Solaris battleships into a snubfight. In short, EDGE had long lasting relationships with DHC in Omegas, EDGE got permission from the event creator to join it, and as I was told everyone on our side had a great fun there. I will need something more than loose allegations to not treat your comments as just an example of hypocrisy of an established player who just can't stand any new opposition. I am not seeking confrontation here, and I am really grateful to all the Red Hessians who just declared total war on us. It was great experience while it lasted. Cheer up.
' Wrote:Just wondering. Do you guys fly Council battleships around Tau-23? I heard rumors.
Well, I am not sure whether it as a poor attempt at giving a sarcastic comment or just complete ignorance. In either case motivation behind your comment is more than obvious.
' Wrote:Other than that, when i hear "EDGE", i think "counter-strike in space". Soru but no matter how good the writeup is, your caps loling around wasn't nice, and when you get fighters, you tend to outnumber your targets at least 2:1. At least. At least that's what i've seen.
Once again your perspective is limited. Not that I suspect you for any bias, of course not. I have shown the same links to Vito. In all mentioned cases our forces were fighting while outnumbered. Sometimes even ganked, and despite of all odds survived and claimed kills. I really don't have time nor patience to search for more examples, but I can tell you that those are not exceptions. Check our bounty databases for yourself.
2 EDGE fighters against 3 Corsair fighters in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 1 Corsair fighter and 2 Corsair cruisers in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 2 Corsair turret gunboats flying in formation in the open space
3 EDGE light gunships against 4 Hogosha bombers, 5 Hogosha fighters, one AI cruiser and one KNF destroyer (not that there was some reengagement on the opponents' side)
1 EDGE gunboat against 3 Liberty Rogue and Outcast bombers
1 EDGE bomber against 2 Liberty Rogue bombers and 4 Liberty Rogue and Outcast gunboats
' Wrote:Perhaps somewhere, in the magic land of, say, Gallia, interactions with EDGE are fun and nice, but all the times i've fought you in the real world your group doesn't provide me with the level of interaction required from any official faction. UPD: Well, one might say that the ganking and refilling is here to compensate for low skill of your members. Maybe, but it's not the valid way of compensating. Last time i saw you around omegas, i was jumping into o-7 to see 3 edges engaging lone hessian. And then more of you came. And then 3 of you died, but that's not the point. Point is - lrn2fairplay unless you want holywar, and if you're alright with holywars, good, but that's not the way to get official. And the Omega-7 event feedback - you can easily find that yourself and think.
Once again, you have very limited perspective. Skill of our members vary. Beyond any doubt we have several skilled players and some less experienced ones. But I think this is not a topic for discussion here. You're referring to our operations in Omegas. Well, I think I can tell you something about them, as I was the first EDGE member who arrived to Omegas in the end of February. The first ship I brought to Omega-7 to asses piracy levels and possible profits was a Bottlenose. Quickly it became obvious that due to heavy presence of pirate gunboats there Bottlenoses were not fit for lone operations. So we had withdrawn them. Instead we sent three Orcas to Omegas to work for Kruger Minerals. Shortly after we also registered on DHC bounty board and started to visit Omega-11. What happened next was really hilarious. My first skirmish with Red Hessians looked like this. My single gunboat entered Omega-11, found a bomber pirating a DHC miner and in a minute later my single gunboat barely got alive out of Omega-11 when a battleship, two cruisers, bomber and two fighters were trying to blow me up. My second lone visit to Omega-11 in similar circumstances while trying to save a DHC Hegemon I ended up in being blown up by two gunships and two bombers. We had only three or four really active members at that time, so we decided to never go alone to Omega-11. We took three Orcas to Omega-3 to attack Red Hessians there and it turned out to be a really bad move as three cruisers and a gunship jumped on us. I was blown up, but rest of us barely got alive out of there. So we decided to bring Threshers to Omega-11. It worked out first time. The second time our two Threshers were just swarmed by two battleships and two cruisers. So we decided to bring battleships. But it didn't even worked the first time. Two crappy battleships can't do a thing against other two crappy battleships supported by three cruisers. Situation was hilarious as we simply had only three or four active members back then and we simply stood no chances against a coalition of forty or more players. But there was not a single cry from our side. Why there should be? Red Hessians while ganking us mercilessly raised up the difficulty level very high. Each victory was rewarding. After DHC dissolved we moved most of our capital ships out of Omegas. You're referring to event in Omega-7. I wasn't there, but have been informed about it. It is curious those who express similar opinions to yours have a pretty selective perception. Seeing enemies withdrawing from the fight and resupplying, while not seeing friends that are just sending two Solaris battleships into a snubfight. In short, EDGE had long lasting relationships with DHC in Omegas, EDGE got permission from the event creator to join it, and as I was told everyone on our side had a great fun there. I will need something more than loose allegations to not treat your comments as just an example of hypocrisy of an established player who just can't stand any new opposition. I am not seeking confrontation here, and I am really grateful to all the Red Hessians who just declared total war on us. It was great experience while it lasted. Cheer up.