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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - ProwlerPC - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:It doesn't matter. What you said is they are canonically non-existent. The Bundschuh haven't changed anything outside of Rheinland. They haven't even changed anything INSIDE of Rheinland. They're sure as [redacted] hell there, aren't they?
Look even GMG| player faction is ultimately canonically non-existant. We are all just player factions. I've had my faction follow along canon RP and improve upon it and have seen many of the changes slowly added in as the updates go by but we all also know of the many non-canon spins I've done and the devs haven't taken a single bit of it into consideration. Same with others and yeah plenty have been on their laurels both as player factions and NPC factions. The variety of factions and their varying levels of commitment to the written in-game cannon RP make it very easy to cherry pick one for a convenient argument. My point on canon RP is the in-game written lore of the NPCs factions and not any of us player factions. I'm not ready to toss out the bone either though as I am hearing that these groups, or two of them at least, have integrated and entrenched themselves enough that I think we will be seeing them truly included as NPC factions. But it's the devs who do the storyline that needs to be talked to about that and what level of inclusion it will be beyond what a group writes in their own guard systems.
Also I don't like closed factions, restricted factions, restricted ships within a faction etc...even though I happen to be in the only one left. I'm an advocate that all material we have should be available for use (with the right ID, ship, equip etc...). Myself I'm going to finally get myself a Togo that I've been wanting for YRS now. Wow.
I sort of like this kinda setup because it will allow someone to try things without even having the right ID as well. There is the penalty though and I'd like to see the numbers of that penalty. Under the current setup. You CANNOT use red cells. No SRP and that subforum will never see the light of day ever again. You MIGHT get to use white cells depending on the mood of the leader, I won't lie to you and say that I haven't received tech request when I'm in a really terrible mood. I know for a fact that a good chunk of faction leaders out there have a far shorter fuse. Current system is failing.
I'm also going to note to myself and readers that GMG|s flagship is a RM BS already nerfed because it uses the weaker GMG turrets which will be even weaker now...sigh. Well, once a death trap...always a death trap. Still a fun pig to ride though.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Veygaar - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Do I have to remind you what Freelancer was? The original one? IT was a game where you could take your decisions, what's best, what ship and guns to use, etc. Where you could actualy be a Freelancer and choose your stuff. I guess this is where Freelancer ends and Discovery 4.86 starts.Not at all, you are free to pick your variety of guns;)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Blighter - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:I won't lie to you and say that I haven't received tech request when I'm in a really terrible mood. I know for a fact that a good chunk of faction leaders out there have a far shorter fuse. Current system is failing.
There are flaws with the current system, that much is true and I will not argue.
' Wrote:I'm also going to note to myself and readers that GMG|s flagship is a RM BS already nerfed because it uses the weaker GMG turrets which will be even weaker now...sigh. Well, once a death trap...always a death trap. Still a fun pig to ride though.
I will point out one thing here.
The GMG is the Gas Miners Guild. Whether the player faction is canon or non-canon by whomever's perspective is not relevant.
Do you use said Battleship on a daily or bi-daily basis to do your RP with it? Is your RP that involves this ship centered around destroying enemy ships? I honestly don't know, but I don't think it is.
In the SCRA's case, their Osirises are last I checked the backbone of their fleet. Their purpose in-RP and in-game is to serve both as symbols of might, but more importantly to crush the opposition. In-game. In combat. Their purpose is to rip and tear, as they are warships. Bear in mind that SCRA stands for Sirius Coalition Revolutionary ARMY.
The HF's whole fleet is built around this purpose. Our ships exist to destroy hostile ships. We do this on at least a bi-daily basis. We use our shared ships a very big lot. They see so much use, because we are a faction that is built around the PvP aspect both in and out of RP, just as our fleet and ships, as well as all our proposals for the future gear and ships are built around those shared ships that we have. If you look at our ID, you will see that we get no mining bonuses. We can't use Transports with more than 3600 cargo. We can't even trade per the ID. We can't pirate.
But we can generate explosions, so this is what we do. It is a core aspect of our identity as a faction, it is an integral part of our very being, it is what we do most, what we have always done most during our entire history. In other words, that is who we are. We have built our own lore around what we do and had the lore shape what we do in turn. Most often, that is to burn things down true to the faction's name.
EDIT: And we do this using the ships I mentioned in my original post more often than we do by using others.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Jeremy Hunter - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Not at all, you are free to pick your variety of guns;)You can't use w/e while allied with anyone.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Zahas - 12-17-2011
HF don't have there own weapons in 4.86?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Jinx - 12-17-2011
from crossreading the thread:
- replace "roleplay" with "pvp" - and things look right. ( refers to many of the earlier posts made here .. )
i am aware the roleplay is part of pvp and pvp is part of roleplay. - without pvp, the roleplay is rather dull - so everyone is aware that it is an integral part.
a few points:
- i mentioned right in the beginning ( early reply in the trailer thread ) that we have several concepts - and the one mentioned is but one of them
- we are aware of the problem of generic ID ( the problem on several levels )
- we are aware of special groups that make it a focus point of their RP to mix tech.
in general:
- we assume that any tech mixing is done on a roleplay basis, WITHOUT the wish to improve the pvp capabilities
- we assume that trying to mix tech just to get a pvp advantage is "bad". - sometimes it might turn out that a good RP reason ends up a good mix though
- after gentlemen agreements kinda failed - trusting the playerfactions isn t quite working anymore - hence we get the only objective system possible.... :
the objectivity is: an equal playing field for all. - if you feel the NEED to mix techs, you ll do it on a RP basis - just for the sake of mixing, not for the sake of pvp. - if you want to pvp, you ll try to go as pure-tech as possible.
"but won t that leave generic factions at a disadvantage?"
yes - in a way it does. cause - as was mentioned numerous times: these factions trade a much greater freedom of choice ( zoi, alliances, playstyles ... ) for efficiency. needless to say - a generic pirate ID has more freedom than a gaian ID.
in any way - before you ppl start to rant yourself into a state of utmost refusal and "final nail state" - you really should learn to "wait and see".
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Enoch - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:HF don't have there own weapons in 4.86?Yes, but they will apparently be nerfed if used on other ships, and vice-versa.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Blighter - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:HF don't have there own weapons in 4.86?
Yes. However all our proposals for statistics of ships and gear otherwise are designed to COMPLEMENT the existing ships and gear, as we are based around that and rely on teamwork above all other things to succeed, hence why a lack of emphasis of getting "good stuff that wtfpwns on its own".
' Wrote:in any way - before you ppl start to rant yourself into a state of utmost refusal and "final nail state" - you really should learn to "wait and see".
You may consider this a pre-emptive measure and my initial wall of text a pre-emptive speech. None of us wish to waste time with things which from our perspective appear broken in regards to our faction, which would lead to less motivation, activity, and ability to conduct our destructive RP, which in essence is PvP, what we are built around.
Now, I came here wishing to not dwell on things, however the last time we got told to "wait and see" regarding a matter like this one, we ended up with .85's tech-chart, which effectively grounded our entire fleet and kept a good portion of it grounded even later until the involved parties managed to sort the white-cell for Liberty out. As the generic Discovery player, I can wait and see. As a High Command member of the HF, I cannot simply sit and do nothing.
I won't even get into generic IDs as this too is neither here or there.
However, regarding this:
' Wrote:the objectivity is: an equal playing field for all. - if you feel the NEED to mix techs, you ll do it on a RP basis - just for the sake of mixing, not for the sake of pvp. - if you want to pvp, you ll try to go as pure-tech as possible.
By nerfing 90% of the HF's main fleet, you would accomplish the goal of creating an equal playing field for all? By nerfing the SCRA's only battleships effectively, you accomplish the same? By auto-nerfing pretty much everything the Vagrant Raiders use, as well? By tech and ID mix-match and effectively making the only things factions like Bundschuh or LWB can use without a nerf their own guns and civilian or borderworld ships, you do that too?
EDIT: You do realize that tech and the possibilites to use XYZ tech are what makes factions attractive to an extent, right? Merely compare the number of existing LWB ID or Bundschuh ID players to the number of existing Red Hessian ID players. You will notice a huge difference with the latter ID having the highest amount of players. Why?
Hessians get: Lokis, Odins, Thors, Heimdalls, Vidars, Natterturns, GB shooters, Cruiser shooters, Dresden and the Omegas with their mining areas as their main ZoI.
LWB get: Destroyers, Stuttgart + Rheinland and to a lesser extent surrounding systems as their main Zoi.
Bundschuh get: Lugers, Frankfurt + Rheinland and to a lesser extent surrounding systems as their main Zoi.
That is actually a major part of the reason. It helps that Hessians can drive Cruisers and Gunboats around, and even Battleships come .86, while the other two can't and don't even have ONE single shiptype to call their own, much less a whole shipline.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Bakamono - 12-17-2011
Aye Display, this also mucks with corps...again. Another sad case of play with what you're dealt.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Blighter - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Aye Display, this also mucks with corps...again. Another sad case of play with what you're dealt.
Don't get me started. Isn't Samura for example inRP responsible for the Black Dragon engineering, design, and manufacture, ACCORDING to the infocard of the ship itself?
Quote:Crafted by the Samura corporation for the exclusive use and pleasure of the Hogosha as testament to their ongoing service to the state and its people, the Black Dragon serves as a fitting crown for any member of the organization looking to present his affiliation with style and deadly battlefield prowess.
The Hogosha, in turn, have provided many of these vessels to aid the efforts of the Farmers Alliance in combating their mutual foes. More than one Naval Forces pilot has breathed a sigh of relief at the sight of a flight of Black Dragons moving to engage a throng of native terrorists; while more than one foreign trader has felt a tremor of dread when intercepted by these vessels in deep space, far from the eyes of the law.
Well the infocard says "Crafted by the Samura corporation", so I'll take that as a "yes".
So assuming Joe Samura, Escort Pilot for Samura Industries, gets his hands on one of those, gifted by the Hogosha, and he has the corporation he works for supplying him with maintenance and repairs and otherwise - as he is the escort pilot for it afterall - it would make no sense whatsoever for that thing to be nerfed in RP just because his ID and IFF don't match the ship.
From a more practical perspective: I play as a Hessian now and then. Usually I fight when I do. And countless times again and again have I fought Krugers. I have fought the RNC-Donner and RNC-Blitz, (but they use RM IDs I -think- so that point is somewhat moot) and I have fought the SvKs, and I assure you I don't wish them to get their permitted Military gear nerfed, I don't wish them to have a disadvantage even if they annoy me or are hard to kill at times, because let's face it, there's a challenge, and I want to rise up to the challenge, I want there to be a challenge in the first place when I go into combat most of the time. And boy do I hate fighting Krugers and their Wraths and Bergelmirs.
But I don't want them to get some auto-nerf. It lessens the challenge. It makes the game less fun for them, it makes the game less fun for me, because we're no longer on roughly equal footing, we're having one side given a disadvantage by an auto-nerf, the other side not. And their ships' purpose last I checked wasn't to just be trophies for raw non-pew-pew RP flavor, but it was to protect their mining efforts in O-7. To defend their assets, and to stand up against the Red Hessian tide.