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+--- Thread: Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. (/showthread.php?tid=71719)
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Hastings1066 - 01-05-2012
' Wrote:Heh, and Administrators exist because faction leaders cannot be trusted to remain unbaised and free of bigotry.
My logic is undeniable.
Hence why there remains a distinction between the two. Nobody is calling to promote FLs to Administrator status. All we are calling is for a shift of responsibility onto the majority of the playerbase - which, as evidenced by countless MMO communites, promotes a healthy and nice community.
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Maelstrom - 01-05-2012
Quote:In fact, Parliaments exist precisely because ordinary people cannot be trusted to make critical decisions for the most part.
You say this, yet you favor taking power from a quorum and giving it to an individual?
Quote:Then the problem of silly and surreal RP still remains, and how would you go about removing it?
I see no problem with surreal role play. The entire basis of Freelancer and the Discovery Mod is surreal, after all. FR5's don't stop bad roleplay now, so allowing them to be abused certainly won't help the situation. The best way I can think of off hand, to allow for the greatest variation without breaking the role, would be to design the requirements and restrictions around the role, rather than the ID.
Here is a plausible example. I am a faction leader. I think that zoners mining in my area of operations and selling on my bases is bad role play. Most zoners don't do it, for one reason or another, but it's not against the ID or rules. One small group of zoners starts doing it. With your new rules I FR5 them because I don't like their role play. Why should my vision of their role supercede their vision of their role? How does this promote role play? Since their actions break no rules, laws, or role how is the FR5 justifiable?
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Evan_ - 01-05-2012
That's a hard question. I find myself 100% agreeing with both sides. So what do I vote now?
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - AndrzejB - 01-05-2012
' Wrote:That's a hard question. I find myself 100% agreeing with both sides. So what do I vote now?Vote for -0.9 reputation FR5 applied by character name. So the FR5ed people can rep back and/or change name to avoid/circumvent it.:)
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Knjaz - 01-05-2012
Apply some sort of sanctions if the assigned FR5 is unjustified. List a number of cases, under which one can use FR5. List should be clear with no possibilities for misinterpretations.
Doesn't matter if, as a result, it'll be long and complex. Faction leaders usually have enough IQ to understand and remember all of it, unlike new players that can't read the rules (that makes us have "unwritten rules" on server)
Sankshun faction leaderz into oblivion in case something goes wrong.:)
P.S. Make it possible (in a rule) to update the list and revoke FR5 without sanctioning FLeader. In case something was forgotten/misinterpreted.
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - jammi - 01-05-2012
' Wrote:You're my new best friend Maelstrom.That's not actually correct, at all. Faction Right 2 means faction leaders can already judge and effectively prevent non-cannon RP. FR2 is the faction-internal version of a FR5, in effect. In any case, there's a clear dichotomy here:
The golden rule was that nobody can judge another's RP but the Admins.
It should stay that way.
Forever.
Admins are (usually) elected because they've passed a stringent screening process and are considered trustworthy and capable of the role. The fact that they all play in separate areas of the game and work as a council serves to usually eliminate malpractice and self-serving motives. However, they're overworked and FR5s can take months or longer to implement, if they ever are. System = impractical.
There's no due process for the election of faction leaders. Usually they're elected by their faction members because they're popular or have good ideas for the faction. Sometimes it's just because it was their name on the forum account that posted the faction status. Worse yet, it's occasionally because the old faction leader has vanished and no-one else wanted the spot.
So, you've got an inefficient system that's vetted for reliability and security, and another which is efficient but completely unregulated. Knowing how some faction leaders have acted in the past (and how some continue to act now), I'd have deep misgivings about giving the entirety of FR5 to them unsupervised. I'd support a compromise between the two though.
EDIT: To be honest, Knjaz has a good point. If factions were required to keep a FR5 listing, much alike the current tech requests, detailing the how/why/who with attached evidence, that would make the system a lot more transparent. Furthermore, if factions and their leaders faced sanctions for mis-practice, as well as the long term revoking of the right if it was abused (as happened to the Order| for systematically slapping indies) a lot of abuse would probably be curtailed.
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Maelstrom - 01-05-2012
Quote:Apply some sort of sanctions if the assigned FR5 is unjustified. List a number of cases, under which one can use FR5. List should be clear with no possibilities for misinterpretations.
Doesn't matter if, as a result, it'll be long and complex. Faction leaders usually have enough IQ to understand and remember all of it, unlike new players that can't read the rules (that makes us have "unwritten rules" on server)
Sankshun faction leaderz into oblivion in case something goes wrong.
P.S. Make it possible (in a rule) to update the list and revoke FR5 without sanctioning FLeader. In case something was forgotten/misinterpreted.
I could work with most of this idea. I don't think the bottom clause..
Quote:P.S. Make it possible (in a rule) to update the list and revoke FR5 without sanctioning FLeader. In case something was forgotten/misinterpreted.
should be added, though. It will be to easy for the faction leader to wiggle out of sanctions by saying, "Oh, I forgot/misinterpreted that.". In order for this system to work the faction leaders are going to have to be afraid of the consequences of abusing the FR5. If they aren't sanctioned out of existence and removed from any and all power then it won't work.
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - McNeo - 01-05-2012
' Wrote:This is simple. Doing this puts them outside the rules of discovery. A character's ID, equipment, and actions must match at all times. Report them and move on.
The admins will not currently sanction a player for being made red to their own faction, regardless of the surrounding circumstances.
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Agmen of Eladesor - 01-05-2012
Automating that process, so that the faction leader can simply log onto the desktop in some way and do it, is a bad idea.
Faction Leaders already HAVE the right to FR5 people, anyway. It sometimes takes a little while for those to get processed through, but that's part of this being a FREE server to play on, with VOLUNTEER admins.
There's too much chance for abuse from certain faction leaders who shall remain nameless if it's automated. So, no.
Allowing Official Faction leaders to FR5 people themselves. - Camtheman - 01-05-2012
Quote:That's not actually correct, at all. Faction Right 2 means faction leaders can already judge and effectively prevent non-cannon RP. FR2 is the faction-internal version of a FR5, in effect. In any case, there's a clear dichotomy here:
They can, and all they can do is make you red to them.
So what?
NPC's can be swatted and bases can be avoided.
You still try to step on other people's RP instead of working with it and trying to implement different ideas into the whole scheme of things.
Quote:There's too much chance for abuse from certain faction leaders who shall remain nameless if it's automated. So, no.
Do love you sometimes, Agmen.
Although you're not an Admin anymore so its not forbidden love.