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+--- Thread: Kusari RP? (/showthread.php?tid=72106)
Kusari RP? - DeathsOverture - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:You're right. That's a long time for relationships to change and the "Disco" GMG has done a lot to distance itself from Kusari in that time.
If not for Kusari giving the GMG a refuge during the 80-Years-War from which they could do hit-and-run attacks, they probably would not exist. That war was 150 years ago. Now, during the first great war of the colonies between two houses, the GMG decides that it will not participate in an embargo on Bretonia, but openly enters its space with H-Fuel (through the Taus, no less). I know this because at the time I was the head of the BPA and the constable in space, and I turned them away under suspicion that they were Kusari.
If I were the Kusari, I'd be kinda pissed, cuz, you know, the GMG owes Kusari a little bit, and openly trading fuel to the only enemy is a little bit treasonous.
<snip>
What you do now is take that feeling of betrayal and apply it to an archaic Japanese culture which values loyalty and honor above most other principles. If I were Kusari I would be...pretty pissed.
Stabbing a country who you owe your very existence to in the back is not a nice reputation. This is where the GMG has decided to take their lore. It could be a good thing. It could be a bad thing. It's just RP and it's just what's happened.
What possible benefit could the GMG receive from supporting the embargo on Bretonia? If Kusari is victorious, who will reap the benefits in a Samura-controlled government? GMG paid its debts.
Backstabbing and betrayal are quintessential to the Kusari RP. Anyone who says otherwise should read up on their lore.
So many Kusari players act like the GMG-Kusari friction has no vanilla foundation. Well here it is:
GMG's victory in the 80-year's war was Kusari's as well. A GMG-controlled Sigma-13 simultaneously allowed Samura to retain control over the H-Fuel market and gave Kusari a buffer zone to Rheinland.[1] Generally this arrangement works out well for the GMG who assert their independence quite fiercely.[2]
It was costly for Kusari to back the GMG during the 80-years war, but it was even more costly for the GMG, which lost over half its population.[3] Regardless, Kusari used its new-found leverage to force the GMG to pay a 'reparation' tax to satisfy the 'debt' (funds which were appropriated to Samura's projects in Hokkaido.[4] As a result, GMG started training[5] and funding[6][7] the Blood Dragons behind Samura and Kusari's back.
The GMG used to run artifacts between Hogosha and Corsairs, but the Hogosha betrayed the GMG and cut them out of the trade [8][9]. As a result, the GMG completely shifted its diplomacy, and declared hostilities on the Corsairs [10] and Hogosha [11]. The GMG felt a lack of respect from Samura for not intervening [11]. Samura and the GMG were in a partnership for over 400 years, generating "immense" profits for Samura [12]. According to GMG [13] and Blood Dragon [14] npcs, Samura exploited the agreement. Using GMG's reparations[4] and taxpayer credits, the Kusari government built jumpgates in the name of fighting the Blood Dragons , seen as a "thinly veiled" plot to give Samura access to the Hokkado resources on the public dime [15]. Samura npcs confirm the "grand scheme" of the Hokkaido operation is to rid themselves of the GMG. [16a][16b]
Meanwhile, it is apparent that the GMG would switch to the progressive kieretsu Kishiro as their exclusive supplier [17][18], the only way the GMG could get their hands on high efficiency miners that will be ecnomically viable in Sigma-13 [19-22]. (Example of Kishiro backstabbing Samura). GMG and Kishiro had already been cooperating in Sigma-19.[23-27].
All infocards appear with their Res ID in their vanilla form.
[1] 133020: The GMG was secretly backed by the Kusari government during the 80-Years War. It was very costly, but the GMG are our brethren, after all. They provide a protective shield for Kusari space, which allows the military to concentrate on more pressing problems, like securing Hokkaido for Samura.
[2] 056277: NAHA -- Kusari and Rheinland shippers are questioning whether the GMG is able to control the mounting menace of Outcasts and Corsairs crossing its space within Sigma-13. Despite frequent GMG patrols, criminal activity in the system has steadily risen since the arrival of the Junkers and ALG several years ago. The Rheinland Military is forbidden to enter the system according to the rules laid out in the treaty that ended the 80-Years War. The Kusari Naval Forces is also reluctant to undertake the task, given New Tokyo’s often complicated relationship with the fiercely independent Guild.
[3] 133014: Kruger and the Rheinland Military will never be allowed to enter Sigma-13. Many sons and daughters of the GMG sacrificed their lives to fight the Rheinland invaders during the war. The GMG lost over half of its people during those dangerous times.
[4] 133413: I hear that the GMG was forced to pay a special "reparation" tax to the government to help Kusari recover some of the loans given to the GMG during the 80-Years War -- more specifically, to pay for the immense costs of constructing the Hokkaido and Chugoku Gates.
[5] 133347: The GMG has secretly trained many of the best pilots of the Blood Dragons. We gained much valuable tactical knowledge of how to fight in the clouds of the Crow Nebula during our long war with the Rheinlanders.
[6] 133427: The GMG has been invaluable in providing financial assistance and training to the Blood Dragons. At first they were reluctant, but once the government forced them to pay a reparation tax for the 80-Years Wars, they changed their minds.
[7] 133341: Sometimes Samura can be so naive. They have never understood where the Blood Dragons get their financial support. We are the silent partner; we decided to aid the fledgling movement of the Blood Dragons to exact our revenge for centuries of theft and humiliation at the hands of Samura.
[8] 056371: SIGMA-19 -- It looks like the profit margins on Artifacts are increasing, which should delight many of our distributors in New Tokyo. The GMG was recently cut out of the Artifact trade between the Hogosha and the Corsairs, resulting in better prices for our organization. Contact was made with Corsair representatives on the Hawaii, and our negotiators offered the pirates more than the GMG was paying them for the Artifacts, but less than the Miners Guild was charging the Hogosha. It looks like everyone will profit, except the GMG.
[9] 132788: It was best for both the Corsairs and the Hogosha to cut the GMG out of our business dealings. It is true that the GMG are closer to our people than the Corsairs, but "money makes friends of strangers" as the saying goes.
[10] 132800: The Corsairs used to be our friends, but they made a very big mistake. We served as intermediaries in the Artifact trade between them and the Hogosha. Unwisely, they have decided to try and cut us out of the trade.
[11] 132803: The Hogosha may be all powerful in Kusari space, but this is not Kusari space. When the Hogosha agreed to deal us out of the lucrative Artifact trade between them and the Corsairs, they made a powerful enemy for themselves. Samura should have intervened. The fact that they didn't shows us how little Samura respects us.
[12] 133016: Samura has made immense profits from the H-Fuel monopoly we have shared with the GMG for over 400 years. Those ungrateful gas miners then betrayed our trust and entered a secret deal with Kishiro. Soon enough, the Hokkaido system will be fully operational, and we can abandon the GMG.
[13] 133011: Samura has betrayed our trust. We made a pact with them centuries ago to simplify the sale and transport of our Gas. They have abused and exploited that agreement. Soon we will be rid of the Samura and will receive a fair market price from Kishiro for all of our H-Fuel.
[14] 133432: Samura's plan was to open Hokkaido to gas mining in order to compete with the GMG, a partner whom they have exploited for centuries. I assure you that Hokkaido will not be a good place for Samura to do business for many years to come. The GMG will make sure of that.
[15] 132984: We see the Hokkaido campaign as a thinly veiled attempt by Samura to force the taxpayers of Kusari to pay for their access to new H-Fuel fields in the Crow Nebula in the name of fighting the threat of the Blood Dragons. The government has no intention of ever completing the Chugoku Gate. They will abandon it within the next few years, declaring victory over the evil terrorists.
[16a] 133407: Personally, I doubt that the Blood Dragons will stop attacking us once we retreat across the Kyofu Gap. The grand scheme to free Samura from our historical agreement with the GMG is dependent on Hokkaido providing a safe, reliable source of H-Fuel. I don't see that happening anytime soon in this area.
[16b] 133311: Samura will open an H-Fuel complex larger than this in Hokkaido, once the criminal element has been reduced to an acceptable level. Hokkaido is much closer to markets and less susceptible to Edge World pirates than the Sigma systems. Kishiro and the GMG will not be able to compete.
[17] 131819: You want your ship to run with the best fuel at the lowest price? Then you should try our H-Fuel, which we bring here all the way from Ogashawa in the Sigma-19 system. Soon the GMG will no longer use Osaka and Samura. We will be the exclusive supplier to the Sirius Sector.
[18] 132390: Kishiro is slowly beginning to take command of Kusari corporate power. Samura made a terrible mistake by angering the GMG. Perhaps now Kishiro will be the one that supplies Sirius with the fuel that drives all of its engines. This keiretsu is better because we are more innovative than Samura, which has grown lazy.
[19] 133017: Samura once dominated gas miner technology, but as in many other areas, we have been complacent and let Kishiro pass us by. That is the real reason that the GMG has decided to switch allegiance to our mortal enemy. Kishiro gas miners will enable them to harvest Gas in areas not considered economically viable.
[20] 133316: Kishiro was locked out of the GMG/Samura monopoly for many years, so we had to develop superior technology that could economically mine less concentrated deposits of H-Fuel than those found in Sigma-13. Now the research and development is finally paying off. We will not sell the GMG our latest miners unless they agree to abandon their relationship with Samura.
[21] 133345: Kishiro has offered us superior gas miners that could double our profits. We will abandon Samura within the next year and deliver our Gas to Kishiro exclusively, ending our centuries long agreement with the old lady of Kusari.
[22] 133006: This has been our primary gas production area since 300 AS. It is almost exhausted, but we are hopeful that the new gas miners purchased from Kishiro will enable us to economically mine the lower density clouds remaining.
[23] 056229: AOMORI -- Kishiro has been awarded the new GMG contract to build an addition to the Ogashawa Mining Station in Sigma-19. There have been rumors that the expansion will double the current size of Ogashawa, surpassing the Osaka facility's capacity. Many speculate that this is a major step for the GMG away from their centuries-old relationship with Samura. When questioned about a new GMG partnership, Kishiro sources responded, "Kishiro has been hired by the GMG to help build the station's new wing;. no other contracts have been made. Anything else is hearsay,"
[24] 132808: The Kishiro H-Fuel that drives Sirius is mined here. Soon Kishiro might supply all the H-Fuel, but you didn't hear that from me. Our H-Fuel travels from this base throughout Kusari space. We even ship it as far as New London.
[25] 065834: The Gas Mining Guild (GMG) first surveyed the Sigma-19 system in 550 AS and determined that it was rich in resources -- though far distant from the GMG’s usual markets. After intense negotiations, the GMG signed an agreement with Kishiro to finance a Jump Gate to the system in exchange for mining rights. Once the Jump Gate was opened in 650 AS, the Gas Miner Ogashawa was stationed in the system by the GMG and began full-scale operations. The fact that several Kishiro expert advisors are permanently assigned to the ship and that the Ogashawa provides support for Kishiro's own mining activities in the system has reportedly not been well received by its corporate rival, Samura
[26] 132034: Kishiro would like to become your H-Fuel shipper of choice. The mixture sold here comes from our new Ogashawa complex in Sigma-19, a joint venture with the GMG.
[27] 133274: I'm just stopping by to visit some friends before heading on to Ogashawa in the Sigma-19 system. It's a joint–venture, gas loading facility with the GMG that I'm helping redesign to handle more ships. Kishiro and the GMG will be an unstoppable force once it's complete.
Post-vanilla, tensions have increased between GMG and the Kusari government. Here's a brief (somewhat biased) history, because I can:
With 4.85 came the Okinawa fiasco, which two high standing members of Kusari claimed Okinawa as Kusari territory with nothing to back it up. GMG| maintained the "fiercely independent" attitude of canon lore.
' Wrote:[i]...From: Taishō Sulu, KNF High Command
<snip>
I was of the impression Okinawa being a Kusari system, still, even if under GMG control.
No GMG officer has ever told a KNF officer to "go away" from Kusari as far as I know...
' Wrote:Okinawa is part of Kusari, and the KNF will patrol all Kusari territory as it sees fit
GMG and Kusari entered negotations on the subject of Okinawa but could not come to an agreement.
GMG and Rheinland signed the Sigma Trade Pact.
GMG, Kishiro and RepEx signed the distribution agreement, giving Republican exclusive rights to distribute GMG's HFuel and Plutonium to Bretonia and Rheinland, and giving Kishiro exclusive rights to distribute to Kusari and Liberty.
Kusari cleverly brings GMG back to the table by changing its laws to forbid RepEx and other haulers to haul HFuel through Honshu and into Rheinland and the edge worlds, respectively. Negotations start with Kishiro as a mediator (Thread 1 Thread 2) until the Treaty of Aomori is signed.
GMG encounters Samura transports hauling artifacts through their systems, and under precedent of the diplomatic shift with the Hogosha & Corsairs, GMG made a bold move. The Paramilitary attempted to evict Samura from Planet Kurile, while remaning protected from Kusari via the Treaty of Aomori. Despite the treaty, Kusari went ahead and declared hostilities with the GMG. Things have pretty much been the same since then. The Guild Masters failed to ratify a treaty while the Emperor was in power, though a we were close here (one vote short of approval) Once the mod has stabilized, I predict the GMG and Kusari will work something out.
What happens after that? I suspect the Emperor will make a glorious and heroic return to Kusari after he has vanquished the Gallians and seek revenge on Kishiro for betraying him. Cue civil war.
Edit: Small fixes
Kusari RP? - SA_Scavenger - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:
Etiquette of samurai. It's in every Japanese blood. They're not so rednecks as westerners are.
It's in their blood!!! It's in their blood! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!11111oneone11!!!!!!! And the term 'redneck' is racist, please don't use it again.
Kusari RP? - Mímir - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:They don't. And I despise that attitude. You'll only create bad blood with it.
Wow, rash conclutions, my friend. What is the problem with a GMG security pilot protecting Sigma-17? Logically GMG wouldn't stand a chance in an offensive all-out war against the OC, and it would then make perfect sense to employ guerilla tactics to weaken the OC when you can. What's the point in sitting around waiting for the Outcast getting bored and launching an all-out raid on Sigma-17 (and if that is official faction policy (to sit idle by), what is the matter with a "rogue" security pilot taking matters into his own hands RP-wise?)? I am not talking about ganking grinders within Eta, I'm talking about those ships going from the beta jh to eta jh unescorted.
Moreover, I despise YOUR attitude, tbh, making judgement calls based on 1 line of text. Anyways, I think this thread took a turn back to square one, and although informative, it clearly illustrates why many players feel discouraged to create a Kusari character. Me included.
Kusari RP? - Zelot - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:Wow, rash conclutions, my friend. What is the problem with a GMG security pilot protecting Sigma-17? Logically GMG wouldn't stand a chance in an offensive all-out war against the OC, and it would then make perfect sense to employ guerilla tactics to weaken the OC when you can. What's the point in sitting around waiting for the Outcast getting bored and launching an all-out raid on Sigma-17 (and if that is official faction policy (to sit idle by), what is the matter with a "rogue" security pilot taking matters into his own hands RP-wise?)? I am not talking about ganking grinders within Eta, I'm talking about those ships going from the beta jh to eta jh unescorted.
Moreover, I despise YOUR attitude, tbh, making judgement calls based on 1 line of text. Anyways, I think this thread took a turn back to square one, and although informative, it clearly illustrates why many players feel discouraged to create a Kusari character. Me included.
I think he is pointing out that the GMG and Samura are heated enemies and Sigma 17 is a system with no GMG bases, but, notice it has a Samura planet. One which the GMG has been trying to take by force for some time now. So yea, this would be a problem for Samura if the GMG started thinking of Sigma 17 as their system to operate in. And yes it will cause more bad blood between Samura and the GMG. You think you will be going there to fight the OC, but you wont, you will be fighting Samura if you go to Sigma 17.
Kusari RP? - Jamez - 01-12-2012
I would like to point out that the Hogosha have managed to sneak a base into GMG sovereign space, in Okinawa - as well as having Samura/AFA/Hogosha having a backdoor into the system via Nagano.
Samura is currently protected by a restrictive GMG ZoI and seem to be in a very convenient position right now, which I do not like at all.
If GMG wants to hit Samura in Sigma-17 under the pretense of hitting the Outcasts, they should be allowed to do so within the rules - the ID should not dictate this.
Kusari RP? - Ceoran - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:Wow, rash conclutions, my friend. What is the problem with a GMG security pilot protecting Sigma-17? Logically GMG wouldn't stand a chance in an offensive all-out war against the OC, and it would then make perfect sense to employ guerilla tactics to weaken the OC when you can. What's the point in sitting around waiting for the Outcast getting bored and launching an all-out raid on Sigma-17 (and if that is official faction policy (to sit idle by), what is the matter with a "rogue" security pilot taking matters into his own hands RP-wise?)? I am not talking about ganking grinders within Eta, I'm talking about those ships going from the beta jh to eta jh unescorted.
Moreover, I despise YOUR attitude, tbh, making judgement calls based on 1 line of text. Anyways, I think this thread took a turn back to square one, and although informative, it clearly illustrates why many players feel discouraged to create a Kusari character. Me included.
First of all, you are talking about S-19. If you were talking about 17, what Zelot said would apply.
Now, what you proposed earlier was not ganking the grinders, no. But ganking those moving from one place to another. (I doubt one rogue pilot alone can make an entire wing of bombers.)
While this might seem very funny to you, how about trying to imagine how the other side feels over it when getting blown back to where they just launched half an hour ago before they tried to get past this horrible asteroid field, without ever having had so much as a chance to get away? Because that is what you suggested there.
But as I said. I won't happen, neither in S-17 nor S-19. They are travelling another way.
Kusari RP? - Mímir - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:I think he is pointing out that the GMG and Samura are heated enemies and Sigma 17 is a system with no GMG bases, but, notice it has a Samura planet. One which the GMG has been trying to take by force for some time now. So yea, this would be a problem for Samura if the GMG started thinking of Sigma 17 as their system to operate in. And yes it will cause more bad blood between Samura and the GMG. You think you will be going there to fight the OC, but you wont, you will be fighting Samura if you go to Sigma 17.
Fair enough, but if that was what he meant, that was what he should have said. I don't like people passing judgement on other people just like that - I think it is totally out of line.
Either way, I actually ment Sigma-19 all along, which has both the mentioned jumpholes AND a GMG base:-)
Kusari RP? - Mímir - 01-12-2012
' Wrote:First of all, you are talking about S-19. If you were talking about 17, what Zelot said would apply.
Now, what you proposed earlier was not ganking the grinders, no. But ganking those moving from one place to another. (I doubt one rogue pilot alone can make an entire wing of bombers.)
While this might seem very funny to you, how about trying to imagine how the other side feels over it when getting blown back to where they just launched half an hour ago before they tried to get past this horrible asteroid field, without ever having had so much as a chance to get away? Because that is what you suggested there.
But as I said. I won't happen, neither in S-17 nor S-19. They are travelling another way.
Yes, obviously one bomber does not constitute a wing... And secondly, this notion of mine came from actually having a Ranseur grinding in Eta, and wishing for more (any) opposition - the Eta-grinding is safer (and yields more profit) than most circumstances of trading and mining, and with the changed layout of the jumpholes, it would be exciting if someone actually used that as a tactical advantage against the OC, instead of just leaving it as it were.
Kusari RP? - BaconSoda - 01-13-2012
' Wrote:Laaaaaarge post which was very interesting.
Did I say it was ungrounded? Did I say it was a poor RP decision? No. I don't think I did. I said that it was an RP decision which might give the GMG a bad reputation.
I understand the artifact trade, the Samura and Kishiro relations, and Okinawa (as much as there is to understand about a GC Battleship). I think that Kusari assumed that the GMG and Kusari were partners and held a mutual respect for each other. The GMG did the good Kusari thing and stabbed them in the back, however on a much larger stage. It might have been because of the buyer's remorse from when they bought Samura's gas miners.
I'm not saying what you've done is bad. In fact, I said something different entirely in this thread in two different posts. It was a decision which you guys have made which has both its ups and downs. You're Kusari when it benefits you but outsiders when it doesn't. That's where you've taken yourselves from your history. It's not bad. It's not good. It's just one of many possible directions.
If there were a sequel to Discovery Freelancer set far in the future, it would be fun to see where the GMG had gone in another 200 years.