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+---- Thread: The Phantom is useless (/showthread.php?tid=73495)
The Phantom is useless - McNeo - 01-30-2012
Doesnt look much bigger than a Hussar. The wings are really quite thin, and I dont think many people will see an LF from anywhere but the front or back.
I've certainly never seen a Liberator from any angles except those.
The Phantom is useless - mjolnir - 01-31-2012
' Wrote:Downsizing it by 25%, which puts it at around equal footing in terms of size with the Liberator, its prime counterpart, or
Reclassifying and re-balancing it as a HF and getting a new Light Fighter modeled to replace it.
Don't like downsizing vanilla ship, it is smaller than Wrath, that's enough.
While indeed in discovery not only agility but also size matters, very good agility can make up for the size.
If Phantom got 4.85 Nomad Fighter agility right now people would complain that it's impossible to hit rather fast.
It's rather not possible to rebalance it as a normal HF since HF have 6 guns. Wrath has 5, so Rheinland HF can't really have more guns than the VHF. There's also not really need for a HF in Rheinland as Wrath is in essence HF/VHF mix and will always be as long as it has 5 guns whether it gets nerfed or not.
It could be made ever more of a LF/HF mix though, this might actually be better idea than giving it insane agility
Partly it already is that with the torp slot.
Other areas that can be changed:
- gun classes (ex Hyena has 4 lvl 9s)
- armor to survive nuke (and mini?) (Hyena survives nuke)
- HF shield
' Wrote:This has come up many MANY times. I do not think LFs are a priority for devs. To few actually use them.
Right I have been flying Phantom for a bit more than 4 years now and basically upgrading it a bit in each update, maybe instead of small updates all the time I could have done some huge buff though.
The Phantom is useless - Hades - 02-01-2012
' Wrote:Don't like downsizing vanilla ship, it is smaller than Wrath, that's enough.When it's stupidly easy to hit (seriously, it's bigger from the front than the Wraith is) and has low health, no. That's not not enough.
Quote:While indeed in discovery not only agility but also size matters, very good agility can make up for the size.Not so certain about this. For example, there is NO agility that can make up for the Hyena's size.
If Phantom got 4.85 Nomad Fighter agility right now people would complain that it's impossible to hit rather fast.
Quote:It's rather not possible to rebalance it as a normal HF since HF have 6 guns. Wrath has 5, so Rheinland HF can't really have more guns than the VHF. There's also not really need for a HF in Rheinland as Wrath is in essence HF/VHF mix and will always be as long as it has 5 guns whether it gets nerfed or not.Here's an idea. Don't put six guns on it and make it an exception? Keep the four guns it has on it right now but make them class tens.
In fact, your silly notion that a fighter's class is determined by its number of weapons is, well, silly.
The Phantom is useless - Lobster - 02-01-2012
Quote:Other areas that can be changed:
- gun classes (ex Hyena has 4 lvl 9s)
- armor to survive nuke (and mini?) (Hyena survives nuke)
- HF shield
I actually believe these three areas (one of them at-least) would be the way to go. A heavyish but unique light fighter is a rather nice thing to have rather then just another small one (rheinland has the tiger shark.)
What I would propose however is to actually turn it into a heavy fighter.
4 class 10 guns. just like the sair one. The tiger shark could take over the light fighter role int he mean time.
The Phantom is useless - ... kur nubėgo? - 02-01-2012
' Wrote:Here's an idea. Don't put six guns on it and make it an exception? Keep the four guns it has on it right now but make them class tens.
This would make ship too strong.
' Wrote:4 class 10 guns. just like the sair one.
There is no corsair HF having 4x class 10's. Also, the ship you are propably reffering has turning speed of avarage VHF. Slightly slower than Manta's one.
The Phantom is useless - Hades - 02-01-2012
' Wrote:This would make ship too strong.How? I fail to see how it'd make it too strong. It'd be sort of like the Bastet, but with less armor.
Seriously. If that makes it too strong, I guess the Bastet, which is awful in almost every way but its weaponry is too strong too?
Hell. The Phantom would more than likely have slightly better agility and worse armor and one less gun and a lesser powercore than the Bastet.
Super scary weapon of doom, I'm sure.
The Phantom is useless - Govedo13 - 02-02-2012
Hades and Lobster you have no idea about ballance- HF with 4 slot 10 and all HF attributes is OP ship.
The Phantom is useless - Veygaar - 02-02-2012
I fought one the other day, very hard to hit. Very "light fighter" like already.
Maybe give it a MR option because it is kinda big I guess.
The Phantom is useless - Hades - 02-02-2012
' Wrote:Hades and Lobster you have no idea about ballance- HF with 4 slot 10 and all HF attributes is OP ship.A HF the size of a VHF, and there's already a comparable VHF stat-wise with five class tens (bastet)?
Hell, the normal count of six guns would be a ton more flexible while arguably offering more firepower (depending on your loadout).
Okay, you've sure told us, what with your well composed and supported argument. :I
The Phantom is useless - ... kur nubėgo? - 02-02-2012
' Wrote:A HF the size of a VHF, and there's already a comparable VHF stat-wise with five class tens (bastet)?
Hell, the normal count of six guns would be a ton more flexible while arguably offering more firepower (depending on your loadout).
Okay, you've sure told us, what with your well composed and supported argument. :I
Its fairly small, you are making too much fuzz about it being "awfully big". Yep maybe a bit bigger, thefor some kind of slight buff can be reasoned, but what you are proposing is too much. It already turns faster than liberator. It has access to rheinland plasma guns. It can mount mini razor. It has great armor rating compared to other light fighters.
Giving is class 9 hf shield, buffing powercore to 9k, buffing guns and increasing armor rating. while keeping everything else in place like it was.. is just making superfast small heavy fighter. Since most heavy figthers are more of the size of a VHF rather than being closer to LF.
I see Loki, I see phantom. And I yet can't get about what you are making such a big deal.