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+---- Thread: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=98573)
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - JayDee Kasane - 05-21-2013
Question on missiles. You said that fighter will be limited to only 1 missile per ship. That means no dual Cannonballs or no Paralyzer+Cannonball missiles at same time?
I think that having 2 missile launchers of different type is good.
Another minus here is un-simmetry of guns on ship. Not that everyone would care, but myself - I like to have simmetric weapons on equal slots - 2 missiles and 4 guns, not 1 missile and 5 guns or 3 missiles and 3 guns. But that is mostly my opinion.
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - Jinx - 05-21-2013
yes - symetry is a big issue with the one missile approach. - only few snubs do have center weapons - and the sheer bulk of the missle launchers model can seriously mess up the aesthetics of a ship.
i believe that aesthetics are nearly as important as stats themselves.
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - aerelm - 05-21-2013
(05-21-2013, 11:14 AM)JayDee Wrote: I think that having 2 missile launchers of different type is good.
Another minus here is un-simmetry of guns on ship.
Yes, I agree that having symmetrical looks is nice, but allowing more than one missile mount would make things far too complicated. The new stats given to missiles would hopefully make them effective without turning out to be overpowered, and the same results are not really achievable with the stats required for missiles suitable with 2 hardpoints on each ship.
Also, having to choose between different types of missiles instead of having one of each mounted is the drawback of a gear that can actually make a difference in a fight.
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - CommanderX - 05-21-2013
" Gunboat Turrets Rebalance:
Projectile speed on gunboat primary turrets have been reduced to around 1000ms.
Speeds on Cerbs, Pulses and Razors are unaffected. Solaris turrets might need a little tweak as well.
P.S: Contrary to the rumor some people have been spreading for a while, gunboat turrets are not getting a damage nerf.
Next on the list: Fine-tunning gunboat gear balance
"
As a 2-3 years gunboat veteran:
LNS-Assault1, SFC}Assault1 - Navy gunboat,
Night-Guard|RR - mercenary Asco
Michael_the_3 - Rouge gunboat with molly ID
I must say that I am rather disappointed to notice change like that.
First off, it is true that 3-4 subcrafts may have problem in killing gunboat who have some skills and use gunboat turrets, however turret boats are not fast enough to do hull damage to a evading/escaping figher/bomber who lost his shield, and in big battles gunboats are not as effective.
Gunboat cerberus turrets speed is around 900 if I remember right and it is very hard to hit anything with it even with extra damage, so turrets what have 1000 speed become useless.
The only effective gunboats will be those with Battle razor/Pulse set up, and it is effective only if pilot have very high sniping skills, and it will still be inferior to a light cruiser equipped with 2 battle razors what can snipe subcrafts far faster and more easy because they main turrets and battle razor have very close speed.
Even right now houses almost never use gunboats ( kuzary gunboat do far to little damage, bretonia gunboat is to big, rheinalnd gunboat is useless in front of they strong cruiser, and navy gunboat what I must say is a really good gunboat is almost never used because everyone go for battle cruiser ).
Gunboats thanks to they agility are more survivable then cruziers but they do far less damage, so arguing that 2 bombers should shot down one gunboat is pointless since they should not be able to defeat lone gunboat in the first place, and in big fights gunboats are not as effective as cruizers.
Long story short, nerfing turrets and solaris speed will make them useless and no one will use it, the only good gunboats will be BR/pulse but only if gunboat user is very skilled, and it will still be less effective then cruizer with battle razors, as result no one will use gunboats and everyone who have one will change it to cruiser.
In my personal opinion balance team should focus on a issues like: Galic bomber who can strafe like a fighter and have huge number of regens, even 2 fighters have big trouble to shot it down.
Navy light bomber is trash and they need to use it again big and strong RNC caps for so many years now while RM indies have 2 great bombers they can use.
Navy LABC have 120 speed when kuzary and bounty hunter BC have 140 speed, and even if LABC is very effective in 1 vs 1 fight, in fleet fight it is not.
Bretonia gunboat is still easy target for bombers because of it is huge size.
AI cruizer aiming point is so broken that 50% of shots just miss it all time.
Bottle nose with it is small size, high evasion and gunboat shield is incredibly hard to hit and it make it the best gunboat in sirus in hand of skilled pilot.
Rheinland gunboat would use some buffing so that RNC would not only spam cruisers and battleships.
There are many issues that should be solved instead of making gunboat class useless, and even if it is meant to strike pirates who use gunboats, it strike again houses as well, as result indies will go for biggest ships, and I would rather see a gunboat patrolling trade-lines then carrier.
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - Govedo13 - 05-21-2013
Removing the GB primaries would fix ton of issues. It is better to remove them and let the people to do specialized setups good vs different type of ships instead of making them obsolete like the current gb cerbs/solaris and gb cannons. Good specialized guns is better then obsolete all around guns,better tweak cerbs,solaris and gb cannons instead of keeping the primaries. Without primaries the GBs wont be multi role I win button, with nerfed obsolete primaries and obsolete cerbs/solaris/cannons gbs would be junk.GBs should be able to rape fighters and bombers at the same level as now but they should not be able to damage rape caps at the same time with the same guns.
If the GB pilot decides to make dedicated anti-capsetup it is other story, now there is no need for such because of the mega versatile primaries.
How exactly the bomber problem is fixed? Do RM and RHA and SCRA lose their medium/heavy OP bombers or not? Do the Light bombers receive small core nerf`? Do the Heavy bombers receive 2 additional guns and additional nanobots/batteries?
Another hessian related topic to the hessian developers- do the Odin gets agility nerf or any similar nerf due to its new smaller hitbox?
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - aerelm - 05-22-2013
(05-21-2013, 10:16 PM)CommanderX Wrote: In my personal opinion balance team should focus on a issues like [...]
Funny how all those issues are ship-related, and as already mentioned multiple times in this thread, we're still in gun balancing phase.
Patience, young padawan. All those issues have already been taken into account, you just don't know yet because we haven't actually put them in.
As for the gunboat turrets, wait till you try em out ingame. They're not as auto-aim as they used to be, but nowhere near as horrible as you think either.
(05-21-2013, 11:28 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: smaller hitbox [...] agility nerf
Oh your logic, man... Your logic.
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - belarusich - 05-22-2013
You nerfed ALL 3.03 turrets?
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - Syrus - 05-22-2013
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=98572&pid=1340281#pid1340281
I told myself to rather not read about rebalancements, since ... well, you know me, I "have a lot of good ideas" (to put it nicely). Anyway, I bumped into it anyway and just read this now, and I had to wonder:
Why does Liberty get a guntype they didn't have yet, while the other houses get guns, which were pretty much already available to them? I can understand they are civ guns. But this IS about balancement.
Giving Rheinland a 650 ms 3.03 Particle gun for example would have the same effect.
It's really a question of whether you want to have a house civ gun (probably weaker than normal house guns) that gives the house a weapons against pretty much every shield, or whether you just want to have a "weaker gun for civ markets".
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - aerelm - 05-22-2013
(05-22-2013, 10:06 AM)Syrus Wrote: just want to have a "weaker gun for civ markets".
There you go.
As for all the concern about Liberty Tachyon, I personally don't see the problem. LN already has a 90% core with Bretonia, which offers a much stronger 700ms 4.00 Tachyon, and it has never been a problem. Most of the "problematic situations" brought up regarding the new civilian guns already exist and has never been a problem, so I'd like to ask people to keep those complaints for a few months into 4.87 when they've already used and gotten used to the new guns.
Also, it's worth mentioning that with each house having access to 2 different gun types as well as civilian laser (flashpoint) and a civilian particle (Goddess), Liberty was the only house with access to guns effective only against 2 shield types and not 3. Fun fact, isn't it? Skype log related:
Code:
[2:53:31 PM] aerelm: people complainin about how Liberty would be able to counter all 3 shield types in 87
[2:53:53 PM] aerelm: without even noticing the obvious fact that every other house BUT liberty could already do this in 86
[2:54:08 PM] aerelm: Discovery is such an amazing community (sun)Plus, everyone's complaining about gun vs. shield effects without knowing about the shield changes in 4.87, which makes me recline and smirk.
(05-22-2013, 09:34 AM)belarusich Wrote: You nerfed ALL 3.03 turrets?
Yes.
(Though I have no clue what you're talking about, but since it's related to balance, it must automatically mean something is nerfed.)
RE: Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion - Knjaz - 05-22-2013
Quote:Gunboat Turrets Rebalance:
Projectile speed on gunboat primary turrets have been reduced to around 1000ms.
Speeds on Cerbs, Pulses and Razors are unaffected
Damage output and energy use on a few gunboat turrets have been adjusted according to the gunboats primarily used by the owning faction.
New gunboat beam weapon (Added by AD) was given appropriate stats to act as a proper antifighter gear and an alternate type of solaris with lower refire but higher speed and energy use.
What is the difference between Cerbs and Primaries under new system, then?
Also, that beam weapon - does it have different DPS from Solaris turrets?