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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Unlucky_Soul - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 08:31 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Everybody needs to shoot on occasion, but that's not necessarily justification for having the biggest, most powerful ships around, especially considering what your repsheet looks like.
On the contrary the size and the so called stats are a bluff. To make people fear the Nephilim when in actuality its one BIG SLOW TARGET. I did some pew in conn with my nephilim.
Vs GB: Didn't scratch Hull
Vs Cruiser: Didn't scratch Hull
Vs Dunkirk: Didn't scratch Hull
Vs Valor: Got Hull down to 75 %. The FG and Pulses Wore me down before i was in range with the Cerbs.
Vs LAC: Won but with 40% hull left. The extra Cerbs made the difference. The LAC being a big target was easy to hit and it lacks the extra cerbs the nephilim had.
And i would say my Cap skills are decent enough. Thing is you can blind fire a Nephilim and most of the times it will hit coz its too big.
The only thing the Nep is comparable to in terms of PvP are similar sized BS. Only comparable, not a sure shot win.
So aside from the Impressive Stats, the nephilim is actually not a PvP ship.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - t0l - 03-05-2014
Fight things a Zoner would actually find itself shot by.
Ransuers, Legates, and Marduks.
(Maybe even another neph.)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Unlucky_Soul - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 10:20 PM)Tal Wrote: Fight things a Zoner would actually find itself shot by.
Ransuers, Legates, and Marduks.
(Maybe even another neph.)
Well I haven't fought any of those ships but hopefully will do so. Add a Mako to the list.
I actually fought a Nephilim that too twice. Same armor upgrade same weapon loadout. And guess what? We cancelled each other. Draw. On both occasions. Know why? Neither of us missed
I tried both TSing and Strafing. Same result.
Anyways thing i want to say is for a nephilim to actually win is to have a better armor than the opponent, dodge opponents fire to minimize damage taken(near impossible due to size)and hope not to miss when in range.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Dead Reckoning - 03-05-2014
I grow weary of posting here. When I think of what I've posted here and how I could've devoted that forum energy to other RP it makes me a bit sad.
That said, having done some Neph RP last night and thinking, I am changing my position.
I think Jinx's model should be implemented as the replacement Neph (see below for caveat). Last night, I found that when I was by an Order fighting a Nom GB and a Nom cruiser, I did not want to engage with my Neph, because it would be foolish to take a colony into that fight. I would however, engage in a Fearless or something like that.
So after thinking, my train of thought is this:
The existing Neph (and Aquilon if need be. I don't think there are problems with players and Aquilons) are replaced by the Jinx model(s) (which have quite frankly grown on me. They do appear to be cool ships.). The 2 Leviathans become Nephs.
AND
(caveat mentioned above) If the Zoners get into another situation where they need battleships (Something happens with the Corsairs, or with the Noms, or the Core or even with the Outcasts). Livadia can be RP'd as switching production and further Nephs can be SRP'd
Which from the way I interpret it... is what the original suggestion was (minus the caveat) but was just not presented that way.
It seems to me that on the path we're heading down, the Zoners will keep the existing Neph / Aquilon, but they will have near no guns. I am going to keep flying my Colony ship, but if circumstances arrive where inRP I would need / prefer a battleship, I would like to be able to SRP one that is not nerfed.
This fight has devolved into mudslinging and both sides are only entrenching themselves further. If a compromise is ever reached, it will likely be something neither side is pleased with.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - xiphos - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 06:51 PM)SMI-Great.Fox Wrote:(03-05-2014, 06:43 PM)xiphos Wrote: There is absolutly no reason tp give the Zoners a shipline like this. They are NOT a house and they never will be. If this is going to happen i demand the same shipline for Kusari...
House of Kusari Shipline:
Quote:6 - Fighters (LF - VHF)
1 - Bomber
1 - Freighter
6 - Transports
2 - Gunships (Includes Kusari Explorer)
1 - Cruiser
1 - Battlecruiser
1 - Battleship
You were saying?
Zoners do not have:
A Dedicated Bomber
A Dedicated VHF
A Dedicated Transport under 5k
A Dedicated Frieghter
Well, my Kusari example was maybe not the best. Have to admit that. But all you want for the Zoners is a ship for every situation. Why should they have a full scale shipline like you want them to have? Not to mention that there are many possibilities for the Zoners. They can use CTE shipline and the BW shipline. They can use GMG, Order, IMG, CR ships (only with permission and nerf though) with almost no enemies. All they could need is a decent trade route i've heard.
(03-05-2014, 08:28 PM)Doc Holliday Wrote:(03-05-2014, 07:02 PM)Tal Wrote: Except that Zoners don't actually need to shoot anyone except for Nomads.You'de like that, wouldn't you? Makes it a bit easier to bully Zoners. Zoners DO need to shoot on occasion, it's just not their first course of action.
There's no need for even Cruisers. Be glad you still have them.
Zoner Destroyers are very in-Rp in my book and i am all for a decent Zoner Bomber, but some of the propsals brought up in this thread are a way over the top.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - The.Wizard - 03-05-2014
62 pages of this?
Seriously?
For the love of God,enough is enough!
Whatever happens it won't change nothing about game-play or server population.
Just stop it!
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - LancerZero - 03-06-2014
Hoooo boy. First post in...quite awhile, but as somebody who likes Zoners, and who likes to RP as one (at least, when I play on Disco, which hasn't been very often until recently), I figured I'd give my two cents.
Unless I'm remembering the original first post incorrectly, it's changed. The word now is that everything under battleship size will be left alone, with various nerfs applied to the battleships. Not going to relist them, Jinx did that already in the edited first post, just wanted to mention it.
Aside from already-established RP (maybe ships with established RP could be granted special dispensation to remain as they are?), I'm not really understanding what the big deal is. Love ya, Doc, and for sure we need to shoot sometimes, but do we really need battleships to do that? For quite a long time, Hessians didn't have a BS; they barely had a cruiser, but did pretty well for themselves in spite of it. Different situation, I know, but still.
Personally, I've always wished the smaller side of the Zoner shipline would be filled out. A zoner freighter, bomber, VHF, and medium transport in addition to the existing gunboat and cruiser would be plenty, I'd think. Plenty of firepower for defense (I still think the cruisers are excessive, but then, I've never been a big cap guy), but not enough to really threaten our often trigger-happy neighbors. Zoners don't need the firepower to conquer, just to protect what's theirs.
And unless things have changed, when factions get mad at Zoners for trading with everybody and not picking sides, battleships aren't very effective at resolving the situation. Words - and sometimes, a handful of bombers - are. I mean, some people are talking like there's nothing that can kill a battleship except another battleship. Things haven't changed that much in the last few years, have they?
*hides in a bunker and under a flame-retardant blanket*
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Savas - 03-06-2014
(03-05-2014, 10:20 PM)Tal Wrote: Fight things a Zoner would actually find itself shot by.
Ransuers, Legates, and Marduks.
(Maybe even another neph.)
Zonur on Zonur action, so hawt, xxx.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - SMI-Great.Fox - 03-06-2014
(03-05-2014, 06:43 PM)xiphos Wrote: There is absolutly no reason tp give the Zoners a shipline like this. They are NOT a house and they never will be. If this is going to happen i demand the same shipline for Kusari...
Well, my Kusari example was maybe not the best. Have to admit that. But all you want for the Zoners is a ship for every situation. Why should they have a full scale shipline like you want them to have? Not to mention that there are many possibilities for the Zoners. They can use CTE shipline and the BW shipline. They can use GMG, Order, IMG, CR ships (only with permission and nerf though) with almost no enemies. All they could need is a decent trade route i've heard.
Right. Let's break some of this down onto why a developed shipline helps out Zoner's in Evolving their lore, Adapting to the changing times in/around Sirius, etc.
(03-05-2014, 06:43 PM)xiphos Wrote: Not to mention that there are many possibilities for the Zoners. They can use CTE shipline and the BW shipline. They can use GMG, Order, IMG, CR ships (only with permission and nerf though) with almost no enemies.
Zoners, inrp and oorp, have gone through hell and back for the past few years. There is nothing wrong to state that within that time, Zoner Engineers in O-74 (And Jinx), couldn't have thought of ways to improve upon their current shipline. Like the Rheinland Unlawful factions, they adapted the CTE line to create their own variants for their own use. Whats wrong to say that the Zoners couldn't do the same with their technology and the CTE line? There isnt. What's wrong to say they had assistance from their allies as well? A Technological meeting of the minds?
(03-05-2014, 06:43 PM)xiphos Wrote: But all you want for the Zoners is a ship for every situation. Why should they have a full scale shipline like you want them to have?
Doc answers this quite well.
(03-05-2014, 08:28 PM)Doc Holliday Wrote: You'de like that, wouldn't you? Makes it a bit easier to bully Zoners. Zoners DO need to shoot on occasion, it's just not their first course of action.
(03-05-2014, 06:43 PM)xiphos Wrote: All they could need is a decent trade route i've heard.
I can agree to that.
In case people haven't seen the proposed shipline adjustment, I'll post it once more.
Quote:1 - VHF
1 - Bomber
1 - Gunship
2 - Cruisers
1 - Colony Supply Ship (Nephilim Replacement Model)
1 - 5k Transport
1 - Carrier (Nerf'd)
1 - Colony Ship (Nerf'd)
Nothing OP in tech terms.
Nothing out of place in comparison to the majority of developed shiplines in sirius.
Player Friendly and expanding upon Zoner Lore/Development.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - tothebonezone - 03-06-2014
(03-05-2014, 08:28 PM)Doc Holliday Wrote: You'de like that, wouldn't you? Makes it a bit easier to bully Zoners. Zoners DO need to shoot on occasion, it's just not their first course of action.
![[Image: TfqIYGE.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/TfqIYGE.jpg)
The juggy and the carrier are both jokes in pvp. Yeah the juggy might be able to brawl up close with a marduk or any other battleship if they get up to them, but if you're trying to tell me it'd be easier to bully the zoners if they all swapped to cruisers and gunboats, you have to be kidding me.
I can literally solo a juggernaut with JUST the forward gun on my nomad gunboat. I can't do the same to other gunboats, and almost certainly can't do the same to zoner cruisers.
You don't need to worry about marduks, or even Irras. They're so goddamn big and easy to kite with cruisers and gunboats.
What are you even complaining about anyway? Gunboats have 2k range now and are the destroyer of worlds.
I should fly an indie pirate gunboat out in the omicrons and pirate every last one of your battleships into submission.
Saying we just want to bully you, what a joke.