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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Tyroflion - 02-22-2014
Well, excuse me for breaking a global rant, but just a quick question towards Aerelm. You said that for Disc GC there will most likely be an opportunity to trade in their Zoner Caps. I do agree that this sounds like a reasonable solution if this change is to take place. Now would it be possible to put the link to said trade-in thread (if the Admins do decide to use this solution) on the main page (e.g. Forum Portal) so that people who lack the time to search through the forums every day(like me) don't miss it?
Thanks,
Tyr
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Zen_Mechanics - 02-22-2014
If I dig the hessie lore then I could also find reasons for them to have big toys, but I was only reffering to it as "how" or perhaps "why" - How is easy, zoners have the "how" - "Why"? can be different reasons, all of them can be as valid as the hessies are. Point is, theres an artificial bubble that has been imposed on zoners, and give it or take, I don't blame any zoner faction to it, I blame the people who were jealous about them - and decided to push resolutions against it. I am here long enough to remember zoner caps in house-space, and Im sorry to say I didnt see much, perhaps one every few months - This has been blown out of proportions, Thats like your parents yelling at you for breaking a glass, but then - they add things to it, it's no longer a glass, but a table, and a television you broke two years ago. People have tendencies to large things up, were the ones who eat it up and dont even notice it.
I have long supported an old suggestion made by phoenix, to enforce the restrictions of cap-ships inrp, and open the "zoner-tech stealing" season hunting again. Meaning, If you have a solid reason to explain "WHY>HOW" then theres no reason for them not to allow it. My suggestion to jinx is to change livadia to a phoenix IFF and allow them to FR5-Positive for those who are legit.
End of story, Problem fixed.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Nexus Ark - 02-22-2014
Is this the Tel-Aviv Im hearing ? Im speechless for once ... +1 Tel-Aviv
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - SMI-Great.Fox - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 02:41 PM)Jinx Wrote: nephilim:
this is the most prominent candidate - and the one that may have cause the most immersion-breaking-problems. Its original purpose ( 4.82 and before ) was to be a secret zoner dreadnought of immense power, capable of withstanding an entire corsair taskforce and able to rain retribution upon whoever threatened the freeports.
its purpose and role changed to that of a semi-generation-ship or rather a ship for extended missions and semi capable autonomy.
the role of the ship will focus on that aspect - and the ship is about to become a sort of superliner with teeth. - think of a battletransport in of greatest size - not capable of withstanding any serious assault, but capable of defending vs. the occasional attackers ( like a wing of nomad NPCs ) - while being able to take a lot of punishment and ferry a large amount of goods ( maybe comparable to a minibarge - but for the sake of game mechanics - thats all rather in your heads and not in the stats )
look and feel of the ship is meant to be more like a superlarge utility ship that is meant to operate long long long periods of time on its own, sustaining its crew.
the ship won t be capable of assaulting other ships even half its size though but maybe it might be capable of taking the damage to get to a friendly port. - for that matter we must hope that other ( non zoner ) players respect the new role, too and do not attack "just cause they can" but only if they have sufficient RP and reason for it. ( but thats a lost cause i know )
The redesign is actually not half bad, in exchange against my colleeges here saying the latter. However until stats and armaments are posted, I will refrain judgement on the remodel. Due to the size of this ship though... SRP or RP request?
(02-22-2014, 02:41 PM)Jinx Wrote: the aqullon:
the original role of that ship was a short-mission-patrol-carrier, the only true zoner military ship. it is rather small and compact atm. its armament is fairly average though.
it will be replaced by a battletransport, kind of a typical type of that class. it will be meant to be a sort of ship that can take on a pirate transport or equivalent and or scare minor attackers away - while having the armor to get to a friendly port.
another ship that won t be used much for attack but for defense.
I will refrain judgement as well on this for the time being.
(02-22-2014, 02:41 PM)Jinx Wrote: the leviathan:
right now the TAZ have one and the phoenix have one. those two ships will be converted to nephilims ( current ones ) - and the leviathan model will be removed from the mod. - they will become two actual military grade flagships - getting the current nephlims stats and model and serve as what the original intent of the juggernaut was for ( minus the lore of awesomeness and plus the stigma of balance )
No. Plain and simple.
If we had known this to what would happen when we worked on the SRP at the cost of many headchaes and players in TAZ to begin with for almost a year, we wouldn't have even bothered with the RP. I can feel the same for Phoenix with their Leviathan and what they did to earn theres as well, taking into consideration for the need of a Big Stick.
TAZ wanted one, I admit it was my project at first but I couldn't figure how to get it going, for that reason as well. In case we had visitors we did not want that we needed a big stick for. "Why not use Nephilim's then?" you may ask. I know for a fact that it's been a long standing policy not to use Colony ships for combat. And very very rarely have we used ours for such purpose. (Though I admit one former Admin had one for pure RP purposes to which I still respect for to this day, all covered in Flak cannons from the other houses.)
We all, Phoenix & TAZ, worked very hard to get our leviathans, now seeing them being reverted to the old Nelphilim is a majors slap in the face in return for our SRP. With this, the "Oooo" and "Aaaaaah" of something special that might get others to enjoy RP with our respected factions, is gone. And yes, heaven forbid it, if we RP 10 times more than we PvP.
(02-22-2014, 02:41 PM)Jinx Wrote: the final word of balance is NOT uttered yet. it is a semi finished concept - but the intent to proceed is there.
the zoner fleet will become a more utility ship based fleet with minor military assets. they will keep the cruisers and gunboats for light and heavy military support but won t have enough to actually cause trouble for their neighbours ( outcasts, corsairs ) - who in turn should take that into consideration.
it is felt that possessing anything up to cruisers is sufficient to survive in the omicrons while not having grand ambitions about conquest - and that superliner /transport ships is of more use for zoners. - the nephilim replacement should serve well for any peaceful roleplay conducted by players who wish to fly the huge exploration vessels. it is not yet clear if they will only do transport weapons - or if they can mount hybrid weapons ( like transport + GB or so )
Transport weapons on THAT size a ship is insanity. Cruier Minimum in the least or it will be highly inneffective to defend itself at all.
current replacements:
http://p3d.in/fW2Cn
top to bottom : (unused) , aquillon, nephilim
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/026/7/e/deep_sleep_liner_by_sjrarj-d73tybs.png
aquillon - Looks honestly like the old Resphef remodel you made. Not bad
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/040/f/5/nephilim_by_sjrarj-d75se24.png
nephilim - LOVE IT
no need for a leviathan picture, cause it ll use the current nephilim model.
(02-22-2014, 03:01 PM)Jinx Wrote: actually, gytrash - last year i have contacted both phoenix and taz to be much more vocal to keep their assets - and both factions have failed to fight their fight. - so yes. the ppl were informed that "if they do not stand for what they want and actually FIGHT for it - they will loose it"
afraid to say, your rant is false. - both factions have failed to counter the vocal majority back in the days ( about a year+ ago ) - and both were addressed not once but multiple times via skype. - i know it, cause i tried to get them to fight for their stuff.
As one of the ranking members of TAZ... I don't recall this being said to the rest of us AT ALL. If you however have statements to show against this. I will be happy to take back what I stated.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Spud - 02-22-2014
I just looked at the pictures of the current and new Nephilim.
The current model with the biodomes seems to be more suitable for a non-combat ship. I mean... who would put biodomes on a warship?
So I think it would be better to give the new Nephilim the current model with nerfed guns and hull, and give the new one a more warship like appearance.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - HassLHoFF™ - 02-22-2014
I think when the original purpose of the nephilim is to be a colony ship it makes totally sense to put transport turrets on it, why should it be a lot different to a standard liner. As the main energy is needed for life-support-systems inRP i don't see any fair sense to have BS/ warship stats.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Sath - 02-22-2014
^That in case if the current Nephilim is not going to be replaced,but stats nerfed and another ship is going to be inserted to the Zoner shipline I guess.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Vipera Berus - 02-22-2014
I just noticed this thread and quite frankly haven't read it all - Thing is despite having a Aquilon from before the introduction of PoB's (If my memory is correct) I honestly couldn't care less if it ceases to be a capship. I actually think that this should have been done a long time ago. I for one would vastly prefer for the Zoners to have no jumping capability unless it exists on the fearless destroyer or corvo. Part of the reason I would be happy to see them cease to be capital ships is the flood of them having shown up for jump trades or hyperspace scans. In fact I think that it should be made so that only house capital ships say a LN or BAF ship can use jump drive mk 4 and maybe some other factions being allowed to use the other 2 jump drives. This is despite having no House military characters larger than a bomber.
Edit: Sorry for the slight derailment.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Aazalot - 02-22-2014
im to tired and ill to read everyones moaning posts. And since ideas tend to be drowned in them, im ganna do a TL DR reply.
The Neph change to a super transport. Is a great Idea, basically a mobile Freeport, which is pretty much ideal for Zoner law, make it so its got the armor to sustain an attack with the cargo to survive for long periods without returning to base (inRP). Aqullion however, i think it should remain a carrier, but make it one thats focused on being a recon ship. Something that would go into an area first, deploy scouts and report back. Having 2 Super transports, plus a whale seems alittle too much even for Zoners. So make the Aqulion a support scout carrier, so 2-4 Hangers (not sure if 4 is Bull poop or not) Manuverable with plenty of resupply for the fighters, But again not in a position to really go head to head with another cap ship without support. Other then that i have no real issues.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - aakopa - 02-22-2014
I really need get that new nephilm it looks epic.