+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: PVP Trial feedback thread (/showthread.php?tid=127816)
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Pepe - 03-29-2015
Thanks to Gods (even to Odin)! This bots/batts/ammo sharing must stop. How many times picking bots from killed enemy leaded to feed fest? Did it always escalate to PM/skype soap movie fest? How many times did we hear: Your side did feeding first!
Obviously all feed. Obviously no one likes other side doing it. How not to, if game supports it well and always supports enemy gays!? God bless your righteous decision, Devs. It's never too late. May your girlfriends have always bestest boobs in all neighborhood!
But...
Snubs should be able to repair/resupply by mothership when docked to bay, in case there are bots/batts/ammo loaded and available. What fleet admiral would send snubs out with no chances to dock and resupply?
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Yber - 03-29-2015
"Oh god I can't get x10 times my nanobots, I'm going to give a blue message. Worst day of my life".
"Oh god I can't feed my teammates while making travels back to base to refill again 24/7. My flawless tactics have failed me".
"Oh god I can't keep my snubs alive with my dreadnought's regens and win just because I got a bigger ship. This game is bad".
"Oh god I can't keep summoning flawless convoys of 10+ players because there's a chance a group of pirates might pirate and then engage and actually kill ONE of us. My faction is trashed".
"Oh god I will actually die to that guy who has spent more time in connecticut that I have spent playing this game as whole. Freelancer lacks all kinds of logic".
After my 2 years of no freelancer, I've noticed that the players in the server are terribly scared to die, to the point of not logging and taking any possible action or sentence as a direct offense to them and the factions they may or may not be part of. This has slowly been killing the server. The fact that it's more likely to die in fights will most likely help people get rid of this "I must not die" attitude, allowing them to have fun playing the game.
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Haste - 03-29-2015
(03-29-2015, 05:54 AM)Durandal Wrote: What has been done here is taking an element of strategy from the game and removing it entirely. Knowing which targets to call and why is no longer nearly as important, and fights basically become an every man for himself sort of deal.
Overreacting is fun and all, Justin, but step back and read what you just said. In the past, you would shoot the guy who's most threatening in terms of his ability to shoot down your pilots. This guy would then get fed half a thousand nanobots in the span of three hours.
Now, you focus the guy whose aim is the most threatening to your group. He is no longer fed half a thousand nanobots. He explodes. Your side gets an advantage fifteen minutes in and will most likely be able to 'wrap things up' within a reasonable amount of time afterwards.
Other than some very specific cases where a particular player is both good at aiming in group fights and extremely bad at using nanobots efficiently (there are some people who insist on using nanobots every time a single flashpoint grazes their hull, chewing through the pool three times quicker than someone waiting a little before hitting 'b'), I don't see how this takes away from target-calling and makes fights "every man for himself". Focusing the right target is as important as ever.
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Tachyon - 03-29-2015
Trialing this solution to botfeeding and neverending groupfights is certainly a good decision.
Spontaneously, my take on it is this:
Pros:
- Cap-Snub feeding removed
- groupfight length shortened
- solo-fighting more viable
- botcount more meaningful in balance
- convoy invincibility reduced, making piracy easier again
- groupfight length shortened
- solo-fighting more viable
- botcount more meaningful in balance
- convoy invincibility reduced, making piracy easier again
Cons:
- repair ship not useful in current state (will be altered)
- passing bots midspace outside of pvp for convinience undoable
- b/b piracy removed
- passing bots midspace outside of pvp for convinience undoable
- b/b piracy removed
Side-effects:
- targeted pilot can only rely on dodging skills, in groupfights (->game's skillcap improved)
- insta-kills more meaningful (-> Razor GB spam incoming?)
- smaller and more agile ships more suitable for beginners in groupfights (->easier dodging)
- quality-quantity relation in groupfights shifted a little more to quality's direction
- insta-kills more meaningful (-> Razor GB spam incoming?)
- smaller and more agile ships more suitable for beginners in groupfights (->easier dodging)
- quality-quantity relation in groupfights shifted a little more to quality's direction
Not affected:
- target calls in groupfights (worst dodger will still be the target as before)
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Mephistoles - 03-29-2015
Does this mean repair ships are going to be given repair turrets?
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Carmé Taika - 03-29-2015
Imagine a b/b trade exemption for repair ships, then people will use repair ships as a conduit to proceed as usual.
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Jack_Henderson - 03-29-2015
(03-29-2015, 01:08 PM)Tachyon Wrote: Trialing this solution to botfeeding and neverending groupfights is certainly a good decision.
Spontaneously, my take on it is this:
Pros:
- Cap-Snub feeding removed
- groupfight length shortened
- solo-fighting more viable
- botcount more meaningful in balance
- convoy invincibility reduced, making piracy easier again
Cons:
- repair ship not useful in current state (will be altered)
- passing bots midspace outside of pvp for convinience undoable
- b/b piracy removed
Side-effects:
- targeted pilot can only rely on dodging skills, in groupfights (->game's skillcap improved)
- insta-kills more meaningful (-> Razor GB spam incoming?)
- smaller and more agile ships more suitable for beginners in groupfights (->easier dodging)
- quality-quantity relation in groupfights shifted a little more to quality's direction
Not affected:
- target calls in groupfights (worst dodger will still be the target as before)
I agree with most comments here.
And for those that fear that convoys are not good any more: Just did some testing.
Positive effects: escorts now have to CD Novas, and CM the sector that Novas come in to allow larger transports (> 3,6k, no CM) to have a chance. This can be pretty tense fun, it gives escorts something to do except "try shooting a target that you will never kill fast enough".
We'll see how it plays out. Needs more testing, obviously.
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - CrossBones - 03-29-2015
good rule, keep it, you can always recharge yourself from your kill
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - QuinnZai - 03-29-2015
I like this change. Please keep it and figure out something cool for the repair ship.
Absolutely tired of snubs shuttling Bots, Bats and missiles into a group fight and you don't notice because you are busy fighting so they cruise away and get more.
Absolutely tired of having to drain cap ships by draining snubs, which takes a lot of time if they are good, that fly near them with the constant threat of being insta'd if I get too close.
Absolutely tired of draining a guy to virtually no hull while he shield runs and then gets fed. I find the nearest base and leave the game if that happens.
Anyone that complains about this change in my opinion is defending these tactics and they are crap tactics. Any time I see it happen, I turn around, dock on the nearest base and leave. I'm not interested in having to drain your 5000+ bots and bats in my VHF with only 64. Just setup something cool for the repair ship so it can go on convoys to protect traders and fly with cap raids so it can hang back and heal up anyone that manages to get away from the heavy fighting.
RE: PVP Trial feedback thread - Durandal - 03-29-2015
(03-29-2015, 12:20 PM)Haste Wrote: Overreacting is fun and all, Justin
Overreacting is kicking and screaming or resorting to sarcasm like Yber did. Providing a reasoned and level headed response without insulting anyone is not.
(03-29-2015, 12:20 PM)Haste Wrote: but step back and read what you just said. In the past, you would shoot the guy who's most threatening in terms of his ability to shoot down your pilots. This guy would then get fed half a thousand nanobots in the span of three hours.
No, in the past it was not as simple as 'shoot the best player', because there are all kinds of different 'best' players. You could have a target with a good aim that's terrible at dodging, who would likely be the first target for the main group. They may not feed this guy due to the way he loses b/b so quickly.
You also have people who were adept at dodging for a long time but did their damage over a longer period, newbies who you'd try to get an instakill off on to bleed the enemy of their nanobot pool, and a myriad of other varied situations that actually added a level of tactics to this game rather than it being a simple point and click adventure with lasers.
(03-29-2015, 12:20 PM)Haste Wrote: Now, you focus the guy whose aim is the most threatening to your group. He is no longer fed half a thousand nanobots. He explodes. Your side gets an advantage fifteen minutes in and will most likely be able to 'wrap things up' within a reasonable amount of time afterwards.
I don't see what makes this more appealing at all. It's a matter of opinion of course, but as I said I'd rather play a game where there's more logic involved other than 'shoot person X until they're dead'.
(03-29-2015, 12:20 PM)Haste Wrote: Other than some very specific cases where a particular player is both good at aiming in group fights and extremely bad at using nanobots efficiently (there are some people who insist on using nanobots every time a single flashpoint grazes their hull, chewing through the pool three times quicker than someone waiting a little before hitting 'b'), I don't see how this takes away from target-calling and makes fights "every man for himself". Focusing the right target is as important as ever.
Those cases aren't very specific at all. As I already stated, there are loads of people that fly in different ways and have different strengths and weaknesses to play to.
As for making the fight every man for himself, nobody except for the best pilots are really capable of supporting their allies at this point. I expect to see loads of shield running, loads of shotgun loadouts, loads of griefing and not much else. This is a trial period and only time will tell, but I even anticipate a drop in server count because joe average isn't me and they certainly aren't you.